White Lion Nerf when?

[Aethilmar]

WL is the last Order DPS that did not got nerf hammered because of crocodile tear nerf demands. Go on with that police and there is nothing left for order side to play around. Then you have the roflstop destro melee train all day long with less and less enemys to fight day by day. And then you will wonder why nobody wants to play against you anymore.

The selective outrages when it comes to ballance in this game are really wild. Pointing out the sticks of the opponent while ignoring the iron baseball bats you walk around with

You managed to get the ballance team to take away the 100% block bypass from the single Order class that had it, while totally ignoring that destro still has the monopoly on 100% block on multiple tank classes.

Since ever we have to deal with the fact that one side has the monopoly on reaching M3 when the other barely got half to M2.

Now even keep defences are basically impossible if the attacker uses his monopoly on immunity free multi punt, where both sides of the door just end up being pressed against the walls mid air and unable to use any ability.


Nothing changed on the WL. It is still the same class since the big ability change. All that changed was that you got all other order DPS nerfed hard enough to get the last players that never wanted to play a WL, do it now because there is no other choice to stay competitive.

For god sake finally lock and close this Hellspawn troll treat before it spirals into the third big player departure caused by overreaction nerfs

So much this. Most everything being complained about here is related to getting ganked in 1v1 or small-scale and, as many on Destro say when their classes are getting poked at, "the game isn't balanced around small scale or 1v1". And I'll bet if you take a deep dive into the killboard records of the most vocal complainers here (as I did for one of them) they actually do quite well in killing WL so the actual sin of WL is not that it is OP but that somebody on one of them dared to kill their characters at some point.

Meanwhile while the WL is clearly the go-to mdps class for Order atm that is simply b/c there is no other class to go to. It's not like they suddenly got a huge buff when Slayer was nerfed. They were the second choice class and for warband play (as already mentioned earlier in this thread) they have comparable AOE damage (in absolute numbers if not cone of effect) as a Mara with far less utility but more mobility. Sounds like a reasonable tradeoff.

Meanwhile over in Destro land they have not one but three viable mdps for warband play (Mara, Choppa and mSH) and, oh yeah, mSH has the mobility of a WL with less damage but more utility.

[JohnnyWayne]

WL is the last Order DPS that did not got nerf hammered because of crocodile tear nerf demands. Go on with that police and there is nothing left for order side to play around. Then you have the roflstop destro melee train all day long with less and less enemys to fight day by day. And then you will wonder why nobody wants to play against you anymore.

The selective outrages when it comes to ballance in this game are really wild. Pointing out the sticks of the opponent while ignoring the iron baseball bats you walk around with

You managed to get the ballance team to take away the 100% block bypass from the single Order class that had it, while totally ignoring that destro still has the monopoly on 100% block on multiple tank classes.

Since ever we have to deal with the fact that one side has the monopoly on reaching M3 when the other barely got half to M2.

Now even keep defences are basically impossible if the attacker uses his monopoly on immunity free multi punt, where both sides of the door just end up being pressed against the walls mid air and unable to use any ability.


Nothing changed on the WL. It is still the same class since the big ability change. All that changed was that you got all other order DPS nerfed hard enough to get the last players that never wanted to play a WL, do it now because there is no other choice to stay competitive.

For god sake finally lock and close this Hellspawn troll treat before it spirals into the third big player departure caused by overreaction nerfs

Common sense in this high holy place of crying and complaining?! How dare you, good sir! HOW DARE YOU!

[Illuminati]

So much this. Most everything being complained about here is related to getting ganked in 1v1 or small-scale and, as many on Destro say when their classes are getting poked at, "the game isn't balanced around small scale or 1v1". And I'll bet if you take a deep dive into the killboard records of the most vocal complainers here (as I did for one of them) they actually do quite well in killing WL so the actual sin of WL is not that it is OP but that somebody on one of them dared to kill their characters at some point.

Meanwhile while the WL is clearly the go-to mdps class for Order atm that is simply b/c there is no other class to go to. It's not like they suddenly got a huge buff when Slayer was nerfed. They were the second choice class and for warband play (as already mentioned earlier in this thread) they have comparable AOE damage (in absolute numbers if not cone of effect) as a Mara with far less utility but more mobility. Sounds like a reasonable tradeoff.

Meanwhile over in Destro land they have not one but three viable mdps for warband play (Mara, Choppa and mSH) and, oh yeah, mSH has the mobility of a WL with less damage but more utility.
[/quote]

I'm not a complainer. In fact, my killboard deaths (solo) are primarily to WHs on my SH. I've never made a single post / comment about them because it's their role.

I did however take a look at your killboard... you're pretty much on farm from every class on Destro so not really sure your opinion matters.

[Aethilmar]

So much this. Most everything being complained about here is related to getting ganked in 1v1 or small-scale and, as many on Destro say when their classes are getting poked at, "the game isn't balanced around small scale or 1v1". And I'll bet if you take a deep dive into the killboard records of the most vocal complainers here (as I did for one of them) they actually do quite well in killing WL so the actual sin of WL is not that it is OP but that somebody on one of them dared to kill their characters at some point.

Meanwhile while the WL is clearly the go-to mdps class for Order atm that is simply b/c there is no other class to go to. It's not like they suddenly got a huge buff when Slayer was nerfed. They were the second choice class and for warband play (as already mentioned earlier in this thread) they have comparable AOE damage (in absolute numbers if not cone of effect) as a Mara with far less utility but more mobility. Sounds like a reasonable tradeoff.

Meanwhile over in Destro land they have not one but three viable mdps for warband play (Mara, Choppa and mSH) and, oh yeah, mSH has the mobility of a WL with less damage but more utility.

I'm not a complainer. In fact, my killboard deaths (solo) are primarily to WHs on my SH. I've never made a single post / comment about them because it's their role.

I did however take a look at your killboard... you're pretty much on farm from every class on Destro so not really sure your opinion matters.
[/quote]

Heh....your counting skills need work but all good. Since I'm harmless you won't run when I see you on the field when you are "solo".

In the meantime, thanks for making my point. WL aren't that dangerous. On to the next topic.

[kleinbuchstabe]

Go on with that police and there is nothing left for order side to play around. Then you have the roflstop destro melee train all day long with less and less enemys to fight day by day. And then you will wonder why nobody wants to play against you anymore.

The irony here is, that we got this situation allready, but upside down order is roflstomping SC and RvR with WL dominating warbands and premades. And destro players start to quit game, or X realm, because they are tired of this. So order reached a point where "nobody" wants to play against WL anymore. So your argument is right, but in the other direction, and you dont realize it.

The selective outrages when it comes to ballance in this game are really wild. Pointing out the sticks of the opponent while ignoring the iron baseball bats you walk around with

Yea thats exactly what order people doing all the time, while they have an outstanding WL class... It is selective for reason, cause its only about one class, so outstanding and unmirrored with its abilities, that there is thread after thread with the demand for balance it out. And there are detailed reasons why. Dont forget that this class was pushed again and again, cause there was one dev on an ego trip with his favorite main toon. And it didnt get any balance, while literaly all other classes got.

You managed to get the ballance team to take away the 100% block bypass from the single Order class that had it, while totally ignoring that destro still has the monopoly on 100% block on multiple tank classes.

First of all, its just not true what you are saying here. Tell me, wich are the multiple classes you are talking about? only class who can reach close to it, is the SnB Black orc while using the block channel. Thats it. So dont talk nonsense here. Second, its a good thing that 100% block bypass is gone, cause its pure mocking against every tank. You really demand here, to make def-tanks completely useless with 100% block bypass? Consequence will be a cry that nobody wants to play tank anymore... Just stop claiming some half-truthes, without thinking about any consquences of the claimed, before you use it as an argument... cant take that serious.

Nothing changed on the WL. It is still the same class since the big ability change. All that changed was that you got all other order DPS nerfed hard enough to get the last players that never wanted to play a WL, do it now because there is no other choice to stay competitive.

Agree, and thats the problem. While every class, tanks, healers, Dps, on both sides were BALANCED (yes, when something is outstanding strong gets a nerf = balance), the WL always stayed untouched and is still the same OP class. Thats why destro side is still complaining, with legit reasons. Claiming again and again, that order side needs an unbalanced outstanding OP class to stay competitive is ridiculous...
You are acting like people demanding to delete the class. But all they want to see is some adjustment, cause it reached a point where its too much. Look at the WL population. Yes of course, people only choose WL cause ALL other melee dps classes are bad, and its the only choice left..... Thats Hypocrisy at its finest. And i cant take this bull anymore. People choose WL cause its ridiculously overpowered, and every boon can be competitive with it, without any skill. Thats the truth, and every honest person knows it, even on order side. Stop claiming this nonsens, nobody buys it, and you embarrass yourself with claiming this all the time.

For god sake finally lock and close this Hellspawn troll treat before it spirals into the third big player departure caused by overreaction nerfs

Yea, lock and close the thread and muzzle peoples demands is the right way for sure..... wtf
Player departure is actually going on because of WL population. Balance the valid points wich are proven and listed here many times, and there wont be any thread again. Until that happens, you can close as much threads as you like, a new one will come with the same demands. Ask yourself why this thread is still open and alive.

[tefnaht]

Go on with that police and there is nothing left for order side to play around. Then you have the roflstop destro melee train all day long with less and less enemys to fight day by day. And then you will wonder why nobody wants to play against you anymore.

The irony here is, that we got this situation allready, but upside down order is roflstomping SC and RvR with WL dominating warbands and premades. And destro players start to quit game, or X realm, because they are tired of this. So order reached a point where "nobody" wants to play against WL anymore. So your argument is right, but in the other direction, and you dont realize it.

https://maartenson.net/ror_graph.html - you can check pop difference, overall difference for last 30 days is little and for EU primetime destro\order dominate from time to time, mostly because x-realm guilds schedules have cross. SC wins also there. Last few days - just people get old toons from shelf for glory of the event ring, few days more, event will end and all those toons will be putted back on shelf and on EU primetime most of the time will be destro hegemony as it was before.

If you interested in personal feeling - LotD has a good marker, how many expedition resources you need to get a reservation? 20-30 is enough(sometimes 0 is enough to teleport on first seconds) for order and for destro even 70 doesn't give guarantee to pass. And for this year from 30 LotD order won 6 or 7. If check city siege - also desctro win more instances most of the time.

So, hordes of OP WLs kills all destro everywhere 24/7 and because of this destro win more frequent.

[JohnnyWayne]

Go on with that police and there is nothing left for order side to play around. Then you have the roflstop destro melee train all day long with less and less enemys to fight day by day. And then you will wonder why nobody wants to play against you anymore.

The irony here is, that we got this situation allready, but upside down order is roflstomping SC and RvR with WL dominating warbands and premades. And destro players start to quit game, or X realm, because they are tired of this. So order reached a point where "nobody" wants to play against WL anymore. So your argument is right, but in the other direction, and you dont realize it.

The selective outrages when it comes to ballance in this game are really wild. Pointing out the sticks of the opponent while ignoring the iron baseball bats you walk around with

Yea thats exactly what order people doing all the time, while they have an outstanding WL class... It is selective for reason, cause its only about one class, so outstanding and unmirrored with its abilities, that there is thread after thread with the demand for balance it out. And there are detailed reasons why. Dont forget that this class was pushed again and again, cause there was one dev on an ego trip with his favorite main toon. And it didnt get any balance, while literaly all other classes got.

You managed to get the ballance team to take away the 100% block bypass from the single Order class that had it, while totally ignoring that destro still has the monopoly on 100% block on multiple tank classes.

First of all, its just not true what you are saying here. Tell me, wich are the multiple classes you are talking about? only class who can reach close to it, is the SnB Black orc while using the block channel. Thats it. So dont talk nonsense here. Second, its a good thing that 100% block bypass is gone, cause its pure mocking against every tank. You really demand here, to make def-tanks completely useless with 100% block bypass? Consequence will be a cry that nobody wants to play tank anymore... Just stop claiming some half-truthes, without thinking about any consquences of the claimed, before you use it as an argument... cant take that serious.

Nothing changed on the WL. It is still the same class since the big ability change. All that changed was that you got all other order DPS nerfed hard enough to get the last players that never wanted to play a WL, do it now because there is no other choice to stay competitive.

Agree, and thats the problem. While every class, tanks, healers, Dps, on both sides were BALANCED (yes, when something is outstanding strong gets a nerf = balance), the WL always stayed untouched and is still the same OP class. Thats why destro side is still complaining, with legit reasons. Claiming again and again, that order side needs an unbalanced outstanding OP class to stay competitive is ridiculous...
You are acting like people demanding to delete the class. But all they want to see is some adjustment, cause it reached a point where its too much. Look at the WL population. Yes of course, people only choose WL cause ALL other melee dps classes are bad, and its the only choice left..... Thats Hypocrisy at its finest. And i cant take this bull anymore. People choose WL cause its ridiculously overpowered, and every boon can be competitive with it, without any skill. Thats the truth, and every honest person knows it, even on order side. Stop claiming this nonsens, nobody buys it, and you embarrass yourself with claiming this all the time.

For god sake finally lock and close this Hellspawn troll treat before it spirals into the third big player departure caused by overreaction nerfs

Yea, lock and close the thread and muzzle peoples demands is the right way for sure..... wtf
Player departure is actually going on because of WL population. Balance the valid points wich are proven and listed here many times, and there wont be any thread again. Until that happens, you can close as much threads as you like, a new one will come with the same demands. Ask yourself why this thread is still open and alive.

That post is pretty wild overall. As the previous post states, thats pretty wrong what you claim. Probably a freebootaz player, as you don't know anything outside of greenskin classes and that BGs can bring their block up with a channel aswell. That is two classes. Multiple by definition. 66% of all destro tanks. Not to forget the (really strong) constant rSH/mara premades on destro that order gets to fight. Mara is so underpowered, it is in nearly all destro premades. Even double mara pemades. And not all classes were "balanced" on both sides. Choppa got major damage buffs, while slayer got major nerfs multiple times.

Please, if you want to contribute something, I'd recommend you'd play both sides. Otherwise you can only state biased opinions with no reflection. With posts like this, you only get people riled up.

[Xameleon]

Tell me, wich are the multiple classes you are talking about?

SHhhhh Black Guards! Keep it quiet! Otherwise angry order mob will steal your free tactic/channel Block chance and free parry tactics...

Agree, and thats the problem. While every class, tanks, healers, Dps, on both sides were BALANCED (yes, when something is outstanding strong gets a nerf = balance)

The moment when slayer got NERFER to the ground (balanced ), choppa got his damage INCREASED! (balanced as well ). Ok, mate. That is just laughable.

Look at the WL population. Yes of course, people only choose WL cause ALL other melee dps classes are bad, and its the only choice left..... Thats Hypocrisy at its finest. And i cant take this bull anymore. People choose WL cause its ridiculously overpowered, and every boon can be competitive with it, without any skill.

One order boy said: "hey, our melee DPS suck, because some are nerfed to the ground, some are simply painful to play, because of insane amount of AoE CC from destro side. The ONLY viable career is WL". And destro man replied: "Bullshit, just nerf WL! Our Choppa/mara/mSH/Sorcs are not that powerful! They will definitely not obliterate perma slowed (thanks covenant of celerity), constantly stunned (thanks mara AoE CC) and morale drained (thanks again mara) order WBs!"

I think this man only wants to fight SL/engie warbands. What a dream that would be. Paper thin, 0 meaningful damage, no AoE stuns, no 100% uptime slows. Those damn pouncing lions ruin everything! We should probably add 1 more AoE damage ability to choppa to "balance" this out .

[Stimpz]

Spoiler:

Go on with that police and there is nothing left for order side to play around. Then you have the roflstop destro melee train all day long with less and less enemys to fight day by day. And then you will wonder why nobody wants to play against you anymore.

The irony here is, that we got this situation allready, but upside down order is roflstomping SC and RvR with WL dominating warbands and premades. And destro players start to quit game, or X realm, because they are tired of this. So order reached a point where "nobody" wants to play against WL anymore. So your argument is right, but in the other direction, and you dont realize it.

The selective outrages when it comes to ballance in this game are really wild. Pointing out the sticks of the opponent while ignoring the iron baseball bats you walk around with

Yea thats exactly what order people doing all the time, while they have an outstanding WL class... It is selective for reason, cause its only about one class, so outstanding and unmirrored with its abilities, that there is thread after thread with the demand for balance it out. And there are detailed reasons why. Dont forget that this class was pushed again and again, cause there was one dev on an ego trip with his favorite main toon. And it didnt get any balance, while literaly all other classes got.

You managed to get the ballance team to take away the 100% block bypass from the single Order class that had it, while totally ignoring that destro still has the monopoly on 100% block on multiple tank classes.

First of all, its just not true what you are saying here. Tell me, wich are the multiple classes you are talking about? only class who can reach close to it, is the SnB Black orc while using the block channel. Thats it. So dont talk nonsense here. Second, its a good thing that 100% block bypass is gone, cause its pure mocking against every tank. You really demand here, to make def-tanks completely useless with 100% block bypass? Consequence will be a cry that nobody wants to play tank anymore... Just stop claiming some half-truthes, without thinking about any consquences of the claimed, before you use it as an argument... cant take that serious.

Nothing changed on the WL. It is still the same class since the big ability change. All that changed was that you got all other order DPS nerfed hard enough to get the last players that never wanted to play a WL, do it now because there is no other choice to stay competitive.

Agree, and thats the problem. While every class, tanks, healers, Dps, on both sides were BALANCED (yes, when something is outstanding strong gets a nerf = balance), the WL always stayed untouched and is still the same OP class. Thats why destro side is still complaining, with legit reasons. Claiming again and again, that order side needs an unbalanced outstanding OP class to stay competitive is ridiculous...
You are acting like people demanding to delete the class. But all they want to see is some adjustment, cause it reached a point where its too much. Look at the WL population. Yes of course, people only choose WL cause ALL other melee dps classes are bad, and its the only choice left..... Thats Hypocrisy at its finest. And i cant take this bull anymore. People choose WL cause its ridiculously overpowered, and every boon can be competitive with it, without any skill. Thats the truth, and every honest person knows it, even on order side. Stop claiming this nonsens, nobody buys it, and you embarrass yourself with claiming this all the time.

For god sake finally lock and close this Hellspawn troll treat before it spirals into the third big player departure caused by overreaction nerfs

Yea, lock and close the thread and muzzle peoples demands is the right way for sure..... wtf
Player departure is actually going on because of WL population. Balance the valid points wich are proven and listed here many times, and there wont be any thread again. Until that happens, you can close as much threads as you like, a new one will come with the same demands. Ask yourself why this thread is still open and alive.

That post is pretty wild overall. As the previous post states, thats pretty wrong what you claim. Probably a freebootaz player, as you don't know anything outside of greenskin classes and that BGs can bring their block up with a channel aswell. That is two classes. Multiple by definition. 66% of all destro tanks. Not to forget the (really strong) constant rSH/mara premades on destro that order gets to fight. Mara is so underpowered, it is in nearly all destro premades. Even double mara pemades. And not all classes were "balanced" on both sides. Choppa got major damage buffs, while slayer got major nerfs multiple times.

Please, if you want to contribute something, I'd recommend you'd play both sides. Otherwise you can only state biased opinions with no reflection. With posts like this, you only get people riled up.

But claiming that 100% block/parry bypass was okay and straight-up lying about multiple destruction tanks having 100% block all the time is not biased at all?

[Bavradai]

Probably a freebootaz player, as you don't know anything outside of greenskin classes

Nice strawman. Less than ten posts. Another troll.