Just roll White lion Why bother (DPS)

[vanbuinen77]

Its 8-9k burst on training constructs in bis gear

[Battlefield]

Damage example from killboard in Praag last kills

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/46161663

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/46159926

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/46160806

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/46159926

Glass cannon Witches with Agonizing Wound may crit 1700+, and such Marauders too may hit hard over 1k

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/51524546

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/51521965

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/kill/51520687

So, stop it !

Besides damage I guess the main issue of the WL from the Destr side or what they don't like it is Pounce ability but Pounce because of Goblin's Run Away tactic and now both nerfed.

[yoluigi]

I dont think people understand what i was saying WL dont have any choice to be stronger because it's the only good choice for melee order
Wl S tier
Rest of the melee b-c tier
While destro got that S, A tier
Choopa (best melee dps with just spaming 3 abilities) with marauder (armor debuff) and melee squig, BO with with auto attack haste buff which is way stronger than the rest of order good mobility and super high dmg.
Slayer is trash compare to choopa now mobility especialy with dok giving -20% speed covenant. You just gonna keep running man and they gonna control the fight.

[Gorezog]

Fun part u ask those who screams lion OP whats OP, and then they say everybody knows lion OP.

Pls show some numbers on dummies so we can see those OPnes and witness its true glory in comparison to other classes.

Conqueror geared WL, 870str (with brute force), 409ws, crit rate 27%

Player stats are as follows with no tactics apart from Brute Force

Spoiler:

Strength 869 (709 + 160)
Willpower 123 (123 + 0)
Toughness 281 (231 + 50)
Wounds 652 (652 + 0)
Initiative 196 (196 + 0)
WeaponSkill 409 (409 + 0)
BallisticSkill 74 (74 + 0)
Intelligence 98 (98 + 0)
SpiritResistance 372 (372 + 0)
ElementalResistance 366 (366 + 0)
CorporealResistance 372 (372 + 0)
OutgoingDamage 1.15 (0 + 1.15)
Armor 2194 (2194 + 0)
Velocity 225 (225 + 0)
Parry 6 (6 + 0)
Evade 2 (2 + 0)
Disrupt 2 (2 + 0)
ActionPointRegen 33 (33 + 0)
MoraleRegen 20 (20 + 0)
CriticalDamage 1.5 (0 + 1.5)
AutoAttackSpeed 1.1 (0 + 1.1)
MeleeCritRate 27 (27 + 0)
RangedCritRate 14 (14 + 0)
MagicCritRate 14 (14 + 0)

Tactics - Centuries of Training, Brute Force, Flanking, Pack Hunting

Pet - No

Stance - Trained to Hunt (for use with pack hunting for 50% AA speed increase)

Average time to down dummy - 25s


Tactics - Loner, Brute Force, Flanking, Pack Hunting

Pet - No

Stance - Trained to Hunt (for use with pack hunting for 50% AA speed increase)

Best time to down dummy - just over 20s averaged around 21-22s


Tactics - Flanking, Brute Force, Centuries of training, Tearing blade

Pet - Yes

Stance - Trained to Kill

Average time to down dummy - 17.5s


Tactics - Flanking, Brute Force, Pack synergy (50% more critical damage, THE must have tactic), Tearing blade

Pet - Yes

Stance - Trained to Kill

Average time to down dummy - 15s

I cant touch these numbers on similar geared MDPS classes with the exception of Loner spec, which is pretty much bang on par for the rest of the MDPS so the issue isnt the class, the issue is the pet is overtuned

This is what the pet runs

Spoiler:

Strength 734 (259 + 475)
Willpower 123 (123 + 0)
Toughness 172 (172 + 0)
Wounds 518 (518 + 0)
Initiative 315 (315 + 0)
WeaponSkill 384 (196 + 188)
BallisticSkill 98 (98 + 0)
Intelligence 74 (74 + 0)
SpiritResistance 680 (680 + 0)
ElementalResistance 680 (680 + 0)
CorporealResistance 680 (680 + 0)
Armor 2400 (2400 + 0)
Velocity 235 (235 + 0)
Parry 3 (3 + 0)
ActionPointRegen 25 (25 + 0)
MoraleRegen 20 (20 + 0)
CriticalDamage 1.5 (0 + 1.5)
MeleeCritRate 27 (14 + 13)
RangedCritRate 14 (14 + 0)
MagicCritRate 14 (14 + 0)
MaxActionPoints 250 (250 + 0)
Speed: 235

Those are some pretty big numbers for a "pet" and both the player and the pet run off 50% extra crit damage when pack synergy is slotted and even when it isnt the pet is still doing more than 25% of the players damage which is what the pet was built to do on live (hence Loner) and of course all the CC is tied into the pet but you are compensated by not having to micromanage and resummon blah blah.

The pet is broken, it does far too much damage and is fairly survivable to boot (that part I cant begrudge as they used to die when looked at)

TL:DR

The White Lion player character is fine, the pet is not. All just from my opinion and testing.

[Sever1n]

https://ru.files.fm/u/upsh74mv7a dont have ring on it so -5%critchanse. Nerf WH?

I dont remeber time on asw but think rekord was 14 sec or smtng. It able to spam skils nonstop and healdebuff on demand.

Both wh and asw was really stable in results. Lion... i had big burst in 1 of 100 tryes. On top it goes complete dry of AP very fast.

I was playing last half of year on sork, played 1 time on lion in wb when we were on order. And i didnt feel that OPiness at all, compared to sork in terms of dmg. Cant say they extremelly fat aswell. Max crit is like near 40%, but u will need sacrifice def rr for it, so i go 34 or smtng. Tick of blender in blob was 500-650, with max WS.

So again wich part of lion OP? Pet? Maybe lets talk about those sweet SH pets that shoot trough walls, can be buffed to turret of doom, and so fast that u will never outrun them? Oh yes gobbos cuties, lets all shame those lions.

[Battlefield]

And if you want to nerf damage then you need to nerf healing

[Akalukz]

in 1v1 it don't really matter, game isn't 1v1. In groups (3+) and warbands, it matters. The 360 aoe has to be changed to conal or 180. There is 0 reason to be able to pounce in the middle of a blob and hit everyone around you front and back, unlike any other MDPS in the game on a channel. Pet speed tactic should be 10 sec ability that needs to be cast by WL instead of perma 50% speed buff. Makes it near impossible to kite the pet.

I have both an 80+ WL and Mara, the WL does more burst damage by far than the mara. Although the mara KD makes up for it somewhat. but the 360 aoe is nonsense on the WL.

[Jastojan]

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... f920c29930

Check zone kills - 80% kills are belongs to WL and 20% to all other classes (Orda + Destro)

It does not mattare what Level, Skill or Equipment WS have, it excel all other classes.

Hm -.-
This says a lot... "Just roll White lion Why bother" yeah, topic title sums it right.

But I am not surprised. I hope other classes will get some buffs (I wish no nerfs for WL, just buffs for the other classes). This is insane.

[Sever1n]

I could easily switch kits with maras, that sweet wound debuff, ap drain, morale drain, normal heal debuff with healsteal, 25% armpen not just for 2 skills, def stance, 50% crit tactic that not tied to pet, aoe knockdown, ability to pull in mass rvr. Give all that to cat, and take away those 360%. Wanna trade?)

[tefnaht]

in 1v1 it don't really matter, game isn't 1v1. In groups (3+) and warbands, it matters. The 360 aoe has to be changed to conal or 180. There is 0 reason to be able to pounce in the middle of a blob and hit everyone around you front and back, unlike any other MDPS in the game on a channel. Pet speed tactic should be 10 sec ability that needs to be cast by WL instead of perma 50% speed buff. Makes it near impossible to kite the pet.

I have both an 80+ WL and Mara, the WL does more burst damage by far than the mara. Although the mara KD makes up for it somewhat. but the 360 aoe is nonsense on the WL.

mSH 360 AoE+leap is ok and WL 360 AoE+leap is not? mSW can only hit 1 AoE in 20 sec lets remove all AoE from mSH!