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DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

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Tom
Posts: 128

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#31 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:33 am

pvprangergod wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:54 am
anarchypark wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:56 pm
pvprangergod wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:40 pm
Uhm, it is early morning so apologies if my faculties might not be running at 100% due to early morning debuff, bbbut.. you don't consider dummies pve???? :lol:

lmao you play dps dok without heal debuff, that says enough.

don't worry. it's one of build that saved in mastery switcher.
in case other dps run HD and team need more raw dmg.
besides, OP wanted dmg part.
and it's only 2 tactics difference, more or less.
where's your number btw.
the celerity tactic is pointless to use because covenants were nerfed so they can only proc once every 2 seconds for the entire group. heal debuff is must have unless you are doing pve.

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dalen
Developer
Posts: 569

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#32 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:57 am

sergteo wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 1:18 pm
One of the easiest ways to make DPS DOK/WP a competent dps would be to remove it's healing capabilities of their channelings (Rend Soul for DOK, Divine Assault for WP) and instead add a flat damage increase so it becomes a channeling damaging melee skill much like Slayer's Retribution or WE's Ruthless Assault. Also for dps dok to have some sort of AP regain, maybe changing Horrifying Offering tactic so Consume Strenght gives you AP instead of making the enemy lose it. Warrior Priest has an excelent AP regen in the form of m2 Divine Replenishment, wich becomes even better when you have to do the job of frontline bruiser and need to apply pressure systematically.

I agree both shield wp and dok (specially dok) are pretty overtuned right now, but i think it's a well known fact already.

Having both fully geared dps WP and dps DOK and playing them on a constant basis i see that the main problem is that the class doesn't have a definitive role when it comes to it's damage:

It can do aoe damage, but it's pretty weak, it has sustained dps in the form of a few dots (guilty soul, prayer of righteousness, castigation / sanguinary extension and covenant of celerity), but they dont apply enough pressure, and it has burst in the form of armor bypass and execute, but they are not as decisive as they seem since you need another forms of damage in order to create a cascade effect.

They are both oriented to single target damage but they lack tools to become a threat on their own, instead they are not bad "support" dps but that should not be the role of any competent dps spec. As for the argument "but it can still heal", as i said, remove the healing while on dps spec, and increase the flat damage, that would be the first step in the right direction.
If you remove all healing from them you would have to add the perks of melee DPS that they are missing as well, for example:

- Knockdown
- Charge ability
- 160 Str tactic
- Armor debuff
- Melee morale abilities (confusing movements, a 1200 AoE M2 etc)
- Melee DPS base stats (basically +200 stat points in the stuff that matters)
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Xirucio
Posts: 121

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#33 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:34 am

Let’s try not to mutate this class identity as well, because some of us care about the integrity of the entire package when it comes to a class / spec.
A hybrid Dps class should not compete with pure dps classes.
We already have stealth classes that are tankier than dedicated tank classes and tanks that hit almost as hard as pure dps classes.

Sulorie
Posts: 6319

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#34 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:07 am

Xirucio wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:34 am
Let’s try not to mutate this class identity as well, because some of us care about the integrity of the entire package when it comes to a class / spec.
A hybrid Dps class should not compete with pure dps classes.
We already have stealth classes that are tankier than dedicated tank classes and tanks that hit almost as hard as pure dps classes.
Those tanky stealth classes exist in your imagination only. What you see is them outlasting their opponent, because they devote their build towards sustainability.
If the tank would do the same, they would survive.
Dying is no option.

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Xirucio
Posts: 121

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#35 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:23 am

Sulorie wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:07 am
Xirucio wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:34 am
Let’s try not to mutate this class identity as well, because some of us care about the integrity of the entire package when it comes to a class / spec.
A hybrid Dps class should not compete with pure dps classes.
We already have stealth classes that are tankier than dedicated tank classes and tanks that hit almost as hard as pure dps classes.
Those tanky stealth classes exist in your imagination only. What you see is them outlasting their opponent, because they devote their build towards sustainability.
That's a performative contradiction but it's fine, i don't want to derail from the subject so i leave it like that.
Last edited by Xirucio on Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

anarchypark
Posts: 1982

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#36 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:33 am

pvprangergod wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:54 am


the celerity tactic is pointless to use because covenants were nerfed so they can only proc once every 2 seconds for the entire group. heal debuff is must have unless you are doing pve.

killing power is coming from burst.
and burst is DD+DoT+AA+Proc timestamp.
DW dok have it all by himself.
if other dps provide reliable HD i don't need HD tactic.
if not, just swap tactic. no big deal.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB7, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG7, Sorc6, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze6, Mara7, BO5, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

pvprangergod
Suspended
Posts: 171

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#37 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:36 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:33 am
pvprangergod wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:54 am


the celerity tactic is pointless to use because covenants were nerfed so they can only proc once every 2 seconds for the entire group. heal debuff is must have unless you are doing pve.

killing power is coming from burst.
and burst is DD+DoT+AA+Proc timestamp.
DW dok have it all by himself.
if other dps provide reliable HD i don't need HD tactic.
if not, just swap tactic. no big deal.
and when the dps "reliable heal debuff" gets parried or are not in range to apply it or its on cooldown, its not reliable anymore. you always have multiple heal debuffs in a ST setup.

anarchypark
Posts: 1982

Re: DPS vs Shield DOK...DW In a Sad State.

Post#38 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:10 pm

pvprangergod wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:36 pm


and when the dps "reliable heal debuff" gets parried or are not in range to apply it or its on cooldown, its not reliable anymore. you always have multiple heal debuffs in a ST setup.

that's exactly un-reliable HD situation.
no choice but take it, if dps fire HD on enemy frontally or enemy healers were good at cleansing.
most reliable HD is ranged spam on both side. rSH and SW.
if other dps providing it, i could take dmg role.
so it comes to teamwork and i think good dw dok can take dps spot.
either HD or dmg or both.
might need extra efforts to compete half drunken choppa
looking awesome have price.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB7, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG7, Sorc6, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze6, Mara7, BO5, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

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