[Archmage] AM seems bad

[Wraithedge]

Returning to AM and wow they seem like tissue paper now. Their heals do nothing. 1 WE just instagibs them. I used to be able to get away from them and make them pay for getting too close. Now they just blast me out of my boot before I can even cast a spell.

Shamans can still fight their way across the map with a WB on them, but AM starts out hard countered. I can still take a sorc easy enough, probably other things except maybe a chosen who also take a whole WB now(still). But I guess it was decided that AMs have had their time and need to be WE RR fodder now.

I keep wondering if shamans are going to get their insta-counter but I think they are forever golden. They will never have to worry about being someone else's meal.

But the experience of playing an AM now is a misery. I guess they got "solved" in a big way. No more fun to be had there, move along citizen.

[Justina]

Well yeah, some people can make them kinda work but they are lacking compared to shamans.

Heal AMs missing that double hotting with tough buffs and run away / detaunt tactic. These two things put shamans above AMs. Therefore escaping / surviving is still a big issue on AMs.

The channel heal thing is weaker because it cannot be used on the run, has a cooldown, can be interrupted, has no tough buff and you cant do anything else during that 3s. Things that shamans don't have to deal with. Having no cooldown on that shaman spec hot is a mistake I think. It is too strong in combination with other stuff. It is also the only hot ingame that is a spec hot and gets stronger with every mastery point. The shaman can apply 3 hots in the time, or a shield + hot + purge or anything else in the time the AM does one channel - that is far more healing done by the shaman (under the assumption that the targets don't die). It's just not on par. It would be great if they could reduce the cooldown of the channeled heal a bit or give it an extra like "ignores heal debuffs" because channeling on a target with heal debuffs is pretty pointless.

DPS AMs missing the tough debuff, gork sez stop, int steal, ere we go and also run away / detaunt tactics.

Id love to see something unique added to the AMs. Like a short group run speed buff or giving them a short period of damage immunity and run speed when they use Run Between Worlds tactic (similar to vanish). They are also missing that ere we go that shamans can use as utility when no healing has to be done.

Beside that the heal AM is pretty broken because without intelligence all the debuffs and drains and defensive tools get a hell of a lot disrupted. I think that is an overlook because no other class has to face that kind of disrupt rate. Try casting the tough debuff on a zealot as heal AM without int... disrupt, disrupt, disrupt, disrupt ...

[Fey]

Heal AM just got the baseline HoT buff made into a small aoe. And awhile back Walk Between Worlds was fixed, so if you're having survivability issues then Run Between Worlds is the tactic you want.

I mained AM on live, and it's always been subpar to RP when it comes to raw heals.You need to make up the difference with the utility you bring like puddle and AP drain. RP is better, but spamming flash heal is bloody boring.

[Justina]

Heal AM just got the baseline HoT buff made into a small aoe. And awhile back Walk Between Worlds was fixed, so if you're having survivability issues then Run Between Worlds is the tactic you want.

Shamans got the same HoT change. It's not aoe it randomly heals up to 2 additional people nearby. Walk Between Worlds fixed? It is basically the same as Stop hittin' me!
Run Between Worlds helps yeah, but you have to keep standing there in the melee train. Getting out with Run Away! is far superior.

[Fey]

Play something else then AM isn't S tier, but it's fine. This is like the countless IB whine threads.

[Sulorie]

Can you record your AM gameplay to show how you struggle? Then people would know how to help you.
Otherwise the start post sounds only like a whine without substance.

[wachlarz]

Can you record your AM gameplay to show how you struggle? Then people would know how to help you.
Otherwise the start post sounds only like a whine without substance.

He write. He want survive a 1 vs wb like sham

[Sulorie]

Can you record your AM gameplay to show how you struggle? Then people would know how to help you.
Otherwise the start post sounds only like a whine without substance.

He write. He want survive a 1 vs wb like sham

Yeah, then I want a video of such shamans too! :^)

[BluIzLucky]

Not sure how long you've been gone, but now you pretty much need sov gear to solo.
WEs has been buffed while AMs have got AP drain nerf and Shams got big nerfs, so they definitely can't kite a wb now.

While I think it's a bit much to give a class with that much front loaded burst (and stealth) a ranged no cooldown 40% snare, don't really think AMs should be complaining, if you dont want to die so quick, go tanky/sustain and pre-hot/absorb. I win 50/50 vs WE and i go very squishy and greedy on pots..

As for healing AMs, they are still very dependant on having at least 1 good SM, but even without you still have the highest burst heal and should be on par with or above RPs in most cases.
If you are struggling to survive, try going 4xFS and get toughness to 600-800 while using Run Between Worlds.

As for FE, I fully support making it a moveable channel, just because it would be a hilarious animation, not that it needs a buff.
The issue is that it's 13 points and so is the mandatory EOV so you cant really pick it until r70 (with loss of other util) or +2 sov (with loss of survivability).

[Schweedy]

Spoiler:

Returning to AM and wow they seem like tissue paper now. Their heals do nothing. 1 WE just instagibs them. I used to be able to get away from them and make them pay for getting too close. Now they just blast me out of my boot before I can even cast a spell.

Shamans can still fight their way across the map with a WB on them, but AM starts out hard countered. I can still take a sorc easy enough, probably other things except maybe a chosen who also take a whole WB now(still). But I guess it was decided that AMs have had their time and need to be WE RR fodder now.

I keep wondering if shamans are going to get their insta-counter but I think they are forever golden. They will never have to worry about being someone else's meal.

But the experience of playing an AM now is a misery. I guess they got "solved" in a big way. No more fun to be had there, move along citizen.

Everything @BluIzLucky said is wise and true. Everyone else that responded in this forum however scare me.

Nerfs have been handed out to both classes, but they still BOTH retain the HIGHEST potential healing power of any healing class due to EoV and FoDG (which scale with Willpower and Heal Crit) and the corresponding party heal crit buffs for Order (Leading Shots (SW) and Dirty Tricks (Knights))----Cry me a river @Justina.

Regardless of what all the naysayers say, you have a wonderful set of tools as an Archmage to manage most 1v1 and occassionally 1v2+ engagements depending on how you utilize Marsh/Puddle in coordination with AoE/Single Target Detaunt and how well you distributed your defensive stats (wounds, armor, and anti-crit is priority). Most MDPS will also not auto-disrupt your debuffs (even in T4) because even a fully maxed out deft defender (18%) is piddly and much more relevant in niche anti-magic builds. You can also hotbar your Morale Bubble to give you additional survivability in clutch PvP. I prefer Focused Mind.

Mirror Class Considerations:
[*]Shaman have a chronic AP management issue that is more blatant than AM, with their superior Wild Healing AP tactic (which can trigger from Funnel Essence), which makes RestoBurst a mandatory tactic for most Shamans. Tough HoT (40 AP) application is always a tactical consideration for the efficient Shaman due to it's cost (in AP and GCD) and single target application. Run Away and Auto-AoE detaunt Tactics are good tactics, but not ideal and rather niche as well for healers (especially with the heavy-handed Shaman nerfs).

[*]Ability CD reduction has been taken from the Blorc and left on the Choppa. Meaning Total Shaman healing potential has been compromised due to it's reliance on a defensively weak and compromised vector like the Choppa for Power Cleansing and FoDG healing bursts. AM relies on SM, a tough CD reduc vector for sieges and cities.

[*]Why would I, pure Heal Shaman, take Run Away and AoE-Autodetaunt if kiting and normal detaunt + puddle works just as well if not better?

[*]Assuming you don't suck as a caster, have conqueror (or higher with Wounds/Armorer Talis), and have good situational awareness. Shaman Tactic setup and Archmage Tactic setup should look very similar until Mid-High to End-game Meta.

[*]Discipline, Heal Crit Tactic, Infusion/Shrug It Off Tactic, and (Wild Healing (AM) or RestoBurst (SHAM)). You can modify the list and replace as you deem fit based on PvP environment and Enemy player tactics/composition/behavior. Discipline will be the most dispensable tactic in the bunch with the ideal gear mix. Also living-long-enough-to-heal > Willpower (minimum 600ish).

Spoiler:

The channel heal thing is weaker because it cannot be used on the run, has a cooldown, can be interrupted, has no tough buff and you cant do anything else during that 3s.

Funnel Essence CAN trigger on the run. The first tic, which is instant AND Triggers Wild Healing/RestoBurst.

Spoiler:

Id love to see something unique added to the AMs. Like a short group run speed buff or giving them a short period of damage immunity and run speed when they use Run Between Worlds tactic (similar to vanish). They are also missing that ere we go that shamans can use as utility when no healing has to be done.

Group Buffs are cool. More unique and carefully added abilities/tactics should be integrated into healer arsenals for flavor and variability (not necessarily survivability/flat defense increases). RP/Zealots are boring as hell to play in comparison to Pure Heal AM/Shaman debuffing potential.

Spoiler:

Beside that the heal AM is pretty broken because without intelligence all the debuffs and drains and defensive tools get a hell of a lot disrupted. I think that is an overlook because no other class has to face that kind of disrupt rate. Try casting the tough debuff on a zealot as heal AM without int... disrupt, disrupt, disrupt, disrupt ...

Casting on compromised healers is always a chance. Most good healers have around 35%-43%+ to disrupt due to willpower + DD stacking. Lol. This is INTENDED.