[Archmage] AM seems bad

[HammerGuy]

He write. He want survive a 1 vs wb like sham

Yeah, then I want a video of such shamans too! :^)

I would like to see this as well. I keep hearing that shaman can kite warbands and I'm struggling to kite more than two players at a time onine. I want to see what I'm doing wrong.

[Justina]

[*]Shaman have a chronic AP management issue that is more blatant than AM, with their superior Wild Healing AP tactic (which can trigger from Funnel Essence), which makes RestoBurst a mandatory tactic for most Shamans. Tough HoT (40 AP) application is always a tactical consideration for the efficient Shaman due to it's cost (in AP and GCD) and single target application. Run Away and Auto-AoE detaunt Tactics are good tactics, but not ideal and rather niche as well for healers (especially with the heavy-handed Shaman nerfs).

You can't have Wild Healing without sov +2. 70+ AMs without sov usually take FE, EOV and puddle. For Wild Healing you would have to give up one of them. With 6piece sov you lose stats compared to a 5 piece invader / 3 piece sov which results in a lower survivability.
Shamans have chronic AP management issues because they can spam their 13 point hot. The devs could put a cooldown on that to fix your AP problems

[*]Why would I, pure Heal Shaman, take Run Away and AoE-Autodetaunt if kiting and normal detaunt + puddle works just as well if not better?

Well, you have a second hot with +200 or more tough. That helps, don't you think? AMs can't get that amount of tough. The Autodetaunt isnt that great yeah but the Run Away is pretty awesome. When Im getting jumped on my shammy I usually detaunt and put down puddle and by then I already have the speed boost... catch me if you can... no choppa and mara pulls either, yay...

Spoiler:

Beside that the heal AM is pretty broken because without intelligence all the debuffs and drains and defensive tools get a hell of a lot disrupted. I think that is an overlook because no other class has to face that kind of disrupt rate. Try casting the tough debuff on a zealot as heal AM without int... disrupt, disrupt, disrupt, disrupt ...

Casting on compromised healers is always a chance. Most good healers have around 35%-43%+ to disrupt due to willpower + DD stacking. Lol. This is INTENDED.

[/quote]
It's the way RoR calculates the disrupt chance. When you are having high int then you usually have no problems with disrupts. I tried an extrem build on my WP with almost 50% disrupt and the high sorcs still hit me with 9 out of 10 spells. That is ok, it would be unplayable for casters otherwise, BUT the caster classes without int are facing huge amounts of disrupts.

So the thing is: While the drain, debuffs and wind blast / eek are working fine on DPS AMs and Shamans, they resist A LOT on heal AMs and Shamans without int.

Now the questing is if that is intended or not. I think that it is pretty annoying when I have to cast a debuff 4 times until it gets through. Other classes like chosen/knights with stagger never have disrupt issues and they dont need high int either.

[havartii]

Your bias is very obvious as shaman has had 5 nerfs and please provide proof that they can kite an entire warband. Both shaman and archmage have suffered since the armor nerf, and not only have the devs acknowledged this survivability nerf but compounded it with many other nerfs leaving them in a very bad spot. They really don't care about your class and listen to a small minority that are slowly killing the base game. In favor of an elite game called ranked that has not only alienated much of the player base, but has failed at making it for the majority to enjoy. https://clips.twitch.tv/PeacefulJazzyPi ... c6mG5FFBE2

[Sinisterror]

All these "shaman can kite warbands" comments are remnants from live shamans where RUN AWAY can be up 100 %. RoR has 10 sec ICD so it can be 5 sec up and 5 sec without. Also Odjira + Run away renown ability these all 3 stacked to 110-115 % movement speed.

Land of the dead stuff (like odjira) that really made things stupid was buggged talismans that lasted forever (never fixed) so shaman could have 900 armour buff proc talisman + 15 % crit talisman (worked for all crit) + 8% heal crit talisman. If you were super lucky and got the 1 of 3 cloaks from lotd that was bugged and you could also slot 3 more of these kind of talismans like 3200 absorb for 10 seconds 30 sec icd. Another armour proc like 800 because live these stacked with armour pots and eachother so you could have extra 2400-2600 armour (with potion)

I have been bit annoyed playing shaman sometimes after AP drain nerf but not with AM. Imo change it back to 10 sec CD 9 sec drain time and 180 ap BUT make it only drain 90 AP from enemy so 2x these classes could only drain enemy like 1 did before nerf but wouldnt have so much issues with AP. Also change fodg + eov cooldown to 3 seconds and add new skill that reverts your class mechanic points 30 sec cooldown.

[Schweedy]

Spoiler:

You can't have Wild Healing without sov +2. 70+ AMs without sov usually take FE, EOV and puddle. For Wild Healing you would have to give up one of them. With 6piece sov you lose stats compared to a 5 piece invader / 3 piece sov which results in a lower survivability.
Shamans have chronic AP management issues because they can spam their 13 point hot. The devs could put a cooldown on that to fix your AP problems

Bad Shamans group spam their Toughness HoT when Burst Healing is warranted or expected, and are thus crappier healers for it with more dead friendlies (this is Shaman Healing 101). If your teammates have trouble with an EXPENSIVE middling toughness buff/HoT that can be SHATTERED (IB/WP/Knight) then you need to get better teammates or teach them what burst damage is. Truth is... they CAN'T spam it unless properly supported (DoK AP/Zeal AP buffs). Teamwork makes the dream work.

Honestly, I would forgo Funnel Essence completely if it meant I could pick up Wild Healing and/or Apotheosis (for the situations that warrant it). Wild Healing is incredible and you can attest to it's potency if you go a few hours with RestoBurst then switch back. Or forgo Wild Healing completely, since AP+ Staffs and Gear isn't in short supply for DPS/Heal Archmages.

Spoiler:

Well, you have a second hot with +200 or more tough. That helps, don't you think? AMs can't get that amount of tough. The Autodetaunt isnt that great yeah but the Run Away is pretty awesome. When Im getting jumped on my shammy I usually detaunt and put down puddle and by then I already have the speed boost... catch me if you can... no choppa and mara pulls either, yay...

Run Away has a 10 second internal CD that only has a CHANCE (25%) to apply on being hit ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶i̶m̶m̶e̶d̶i̶a̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶s̶p̶e̶l̶l̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶y̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶. When not being used by carefully positioned players (or smart players), it's as good as useless to the Shaman's overall healing potential, who happens to have a superior AoE detaunt ability than its mirror to begin with (10 secs and +5% disrupt as opposed to just 5 secs). Also... yes toughness is nice, but only good for sustain heal not BURST HEAL, which is where AM shines above. To no one's surprise chosen/BO/BG toughness buffs do not stack with Toughness HoT.
EDIT: Corrected Run Away! description. It isn't dispelled on ability use unlike Weap Affix/Quick Escape. Tactic is still mediocre.

Spoiler:

I think that it is pretty annoying when I have to cast a debuff 4 times until it gets through. Other classes like chosen/knights with stagger never have disrupt issues and they dont need high int either.

It's a good thing we don't consider systematic and wide-ranging changes based on personal RNG luck or anecdotal/subjective experiences from indignant or aggrieved players in the forums. Mostly...

[Kaeldrick]

Just one little mistake about RUN AWAY tactic : effect isn't removed on ability use (unlike speed buff effects you can find on some 2H melee weapons). It would be a completely useless tactic if it was the case.

About Do Sumfin' Useful : this is just another HoT, the toughness bonus is mitigated by existing buffs as they don't stack but strongest overrides everything else. So, in my guild, we rather play FoDG as soon as possible : RR60 and Vanquisher. Some of my shamans try it from Annihilator. You should do the same with EoV.

Thanks for busting myths about shaman btw.

To OP : Actually, both AM and Shaman classes are just CD reduction dependant to fully exploit their potential and class mechanic. As an Order AM, you'll be very often in groups with Swordmasters, there's a bunch of them and you have 2 tank slots in warband for only 3 tank classes. As the access to CD reduction buff for a SM has been guaranted lately by "balance changes", you'll be fine on AM. Not the same story for shaman after destro massive nerfs.

[Sulorie]

Shaman's [...] who happens to have a superior AoE detaunt ability than its mirror to begin with (10 secs and +5% disrupt as opposed to just 5 secs).

Both are detaunt last 10 sec and AM one can be enhanced to have very high uptime, due to short cooldown.

[Wushi]

I think it’s just a player issue, you build up shamans like they’re better than AM, meanwhile they have less survivability, less damage, you can dispell their dots but they can’t dispell yours, you have a damage debuff, an extra dot, an extra 3.6k shield… no AM should ever lose to a shaman, the only thing the Shaman has over the AM is a severely nerfed Run Away! tactic, and a toughness hot which barely adds anything and doesn’t stack with other toughness buffs

Maybe l2p your class a bit before whining

[Justina]

Run Away has a 10 second internal CD that only has a CHANCE (25%) to apply on being hit and is immediately dispelled on ability use.

Oh wow, arguing with people about Run Away that don't even know how it works

[Schweedy]

Just one little mistake about RUN AWAY tactic : effect isn't removed on ability use (unlike speed buff effects you can find on some 2H melee weapons).

Thank you. You are correct. For some reason I conflated Quick Escape, Run Away, and Weapon Affix in the same box. Still a bad tactic overall considering the healer offerings. Circumstantial at best.

Spoiler:

Shaman's [...] who happens to have a superior AoE detaunt ability than its mirror to begin with (10 secs and +5% disrupt as opposed to just 5 secs).

Both are detaunt last 10 sec and AM one can be enhanced to have very high uptime, due to short cooldown.

Sorry to break the news to ya buddy. It is "Shatterable" though, which doesn't necessarily make it all that much better. Just slightly.

Oh wow, arguing with people about Run Away that don't even know how it works

I conflated Run Away with Quick Escape/Weapon Affix, because they all essentially work alike in spirit. Still a shitty tactic for bad healers with poor positioning, justified in close/kite-unfriendly PvP arenas.

Cry me a river Justina.