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AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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Rhinochild
Posts: 53

AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#1 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:40 pm

I've leveled an AM as dps, but to be somewhat useful in a city I've tried out healing and I'm just not great at it. I didn't learn how. And if I want to heal, I'll log my runepriest. Or my zealot. Or even my dok.

But I need dem royals.

So I'm trying out Vaul as a spec and here's what I found v target dummy:

With heal gear (Invader) EoV will heal for 1900 or 2500 on heal crit. With dps gear (WL/Opp) I'll heal for 2600 or 3600 on heal crit.

With heal gear Balance Essence will heal for 330 and I did about 20+ attacks without critting but getting disrupted a bunch. With dps gear, BE will heal for 590 or 885 on MAGIC crit.

EoV *NEVER* crits on damage so magic crit is useless. But BE never crit heals, so heal crit is useless. /ad

To max out EoV output, I stack heal crit in renown put on dps gear, but that essentially gimps all the other healing. And if EoV only puts out 1900/2500 in heal gear, why bother with EoV and all the LoS issues that come with it?

These abilities are in the same tree and work in the same way. Either they should crit on magic or heal, but they should be the same otherwise one becomes gimped in the spec. I hesitate to suggest that EoV should work on magic crit given the recent addition of TBs, but ...

Thoughts?
Hamskull, Hamdisc, Hamblek, Hamball, Hambean, Hambeam, etc

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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#2 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:22 pm

Instead of dummy, use actually targets with resists. Then your heals drop significantly with dps stats. As dps healer can't use the current mechanic to your advantage.
Dying is no option.

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Rhinochild
Posts: 53

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#3 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:35 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:22 pm Instead of dummy, use actually targets with resists. Then your heals drop significantly with dps stats. As dps healer can't use the current mechanic to your advantage.
It's not so much about the damage number, it's about two different abilities that are damage to heal - one using magic crit and the other using heal crit - and you can't spec both.
Hamskull, Hamdisc, Hamblek, Hamball, Hambean, Hambeam, etc

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#4 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:59 pm

Rhinochild wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:35 pm
Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:22 pm Instead of dummy, use actually targets with resists. Then your heals drop significantly with dps stats. As dps healer can't use the current mechanic to your advantage.
It's not so much about the damage number, it's about two different abilities that are damage to heal - one using magic crit and the other using heal crit - and you can't spec both.
Both are originally damage abilities. EoV got changed with the addition of a fixed heal value based on willpower plus the original lifeleech component. The heal portion can crit. EoV is the go-to healing spell in big fights for heal AM, If there is a swordmaster in party with cool down reduction.

BE is in the current state very weak. Not usable for heal AM, because no fixed heal value, less useful for dps AM, because we lost the faster cast tactic on BE.
At some point there was a tactic to remove the fixed heal on EoV and give back the chance to crit on damage. It was still bad for dps am.
Dying is no option.

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Rhinochild
Posts: 53

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#5 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:48 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:59 pm
Rhinochild wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:35 pm
Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:22 pm Instead of dummy, use actually targets with resists. Then your heals drop significantly with dps stats. As dps healer can't use the current mechanic to your advantage.
It's not so much about the damage number, it's about two different abilities that are damage to heal - one using magic crit and the other using heal crit - and you can't spec both.
Both are originally damage abilities. EoV got changed with the addition of a fixed heal value based on willpower plus the original lifeleech component. The heal portion can crit. EoV is the go-to healing spell in big fights for heal AM, If there is a swordmaster in party with cool down reduction.

BE is in the current state very weak. Not usable for heal AM, because no fixed heal value, less useful for dps AM, because we lost the faster cast tactic on BE.
At some point there was a tactic to remove the fixed heal on EoV and give back the chance to crit on damage. It was still bad for dps am.
So, am I right then to be wearing dps gear to max out EoV? TBH, the other heals don't seem affected that much.

Generally, I'm not using BE in between EoVs. I just thought it was weird that they work differently. Thanks for the background.
Hamskull, Hamdisc, Hamblek, Hamball, Hambean, Hambeam, etc

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#6 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:55 pm

Rhinochild wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:48 pm
Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:59 pm
Rhinochild wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:35 pm

It's not so much about the damage number, it's about two different abilities that are damage to heal - one using magic crit and the other using heal crit - and you can't spec both.
Both are originally damage abilities. EoV got changed with the addition of a fixed heal value based on willpower plus the original lifeleech component. The heal portion can crit. EoV is the go-to healing spell in big fights for heal AM, If there is a swordmaster in party with cool down reduction.

BE is in the current state very weak. Not usable for heal AM, because no fixed heal value, less useful for dps AM, because we lost the faster cast tactic on BE.
At some point there was a tactic to remove the fixed heal on EoV and give back the chance to crit on damage. It was still bad for dps am.
So, am I right then to be wearing dps gear to max out EoV? TBH, the other heals don't seem affected that much.

Generally, I'm not using BE in between EoVs. I just thought it was weird that they work differently. Thanks for the background.
Actually EoV is only used in healspec, if doing pvp. Because with your class mechanic you reduce cast time of EoV to 1,2 sec, castable on the move, if using isha heal spells before.

Dps AM don't spec so high in vaul path.
Dying is no option.

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anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#7 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:19 pm

heal gears and isha + vaul spec.
EoV when you have mechanic points and WW buff.
isha heal is main, vaul is for moving heal by spending mechanic.
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SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#8 » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:53 pm

You can use Penetrating Syphon if you want both BE and EoV to magic crit.
I think they both used to have base heal since PS only affects EOV despite mentioning BE as well, so my assumption is that it is/was too strong to have both with base heal.

You are on the right track, pm/email me in game if you want some tips or discuss 😉
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Rhinochild
Posts: 53

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#9 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:17 am

Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:55 pm
Rhinochild wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:48 pm
Sulorie wrote: Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:59 pm
Both are originally damage abilities. EoV got changed with the addition of a fixed heal value based on willpower plus the original lifeleech component. The heal portion can crit. EoV is the go-to healing spell in big fights for heal AM, If there is a swordmaster in party with cool down reduction.

BE is in the current state very weak. Not usable for heal AM, because no fixed heal value, less useful for dps AM, because we lost the faster cast tactic on BE.
At some point there was a tactic to remove the fixed heal on EoV and give back the chance to crit on damage. It was still bad for dps am.
So, am I right then to be wearing dps gear to max out EoV? TBH, the other heals don't seem affected that much.

Generally, I'm not using BE in between EoVs. I just thought it was weird that they work differently. Thanks for the background.
Actually EoV is only used in healspec, if doing pvp. Because with your class mechanic you reduce cast time of EoV to 1,2 sec, castable on the move, if using isha heal spells before.

Dps AM don't spec so high in vaul path.
I am heal spec, but EoV seems more effective with dps gear. With heal spec + dps gear the base heal for EoV heals for more than the crit heal with heal spec + heal gear. (with this setup I'm 19% heal crit and 11% magic crit, w heal gear it's 29% heal crit).

And like I said, the heals don't get affected that much - Lambent Aura is 348/527 v 434/600. And I'm likely not using Boon or Blessing given I've got EoV every 5s.
Hamskull, Hamdisc, Hamblek, Hamball, Hambean, Hambeam, etc

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Rhinochild
Posts: 53

Re: AM - EoV, Balance Essence: magic crit or heal crit

Post#10 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:22 pm

Anyway, thanks for the input folks.
Hamskull, Hamdisc, Hamblek, Hamball, Hambean, Hambeam, etc

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