WL thoughts after hitting rr 74.

[Arendollus]

I'll try and be to the point., and the values expressed are of course not meant to be exact.

The class has seen it's share of changes recently. Yet, when looking at the most recent swap of pounce and echoing roar, I can't, from a design standpoint, disagree with the Utility ability (pounce) being in the utility tree of Guardian. Like wise the AOE ability (echoing roar) being in...get this...the AOE tree.

These things aside, the WL still seems to me to have an identity crisis atm.

My thoughts: Most of the WL strats fit into two camps. Keep the Pet around as a tactic buff, and endure the inconvenience of it dying/despawning/etc, or don't bother with it, and slot loner. In the past slotting loner meant grabbing pounce, though that may have changed now. Either way Loner tactic is at the heart of this classes identity issues.

Issues/suggestions
1. Echoing roar is now in the AOE (Hunter) tree. The tree where ppl are putting out as much dps on as many targets as possible, i.e. SC's, Forts, Keep defense, the places where the pet isn't useful, yet it was designed as a pet and player ability.
Suggestion: Fuse Echoing Roar with Leonine Frenzy ability (pet only aspect, remove the player side of it), balance the dmg outputs as needed, but integrate the dot/interupt effects into that ability (and the cool roar sound fx). New ability in Hunter path in it's place>>Heel chop<< AOE snare cleave (up to 3 targets) slowing by 25%.
This to me consolidates the Hunter tree much better, and puts WL on CC par with Mara's knockdown. Snare/clean up with AOE attacks, perfect.

2. Tactic Full Grown is a modest player buff, and a significant pet buff, yet it's in the single target dps tree (Axeman). This tactic fits the Guardian path description to a T. Move this tactic to the first slot of Guardian replacing the PVE one. Now in its place put Loner tactic in Hunter tree, but strip it back to it's vanilla form (You gain 25% more damage, but can no longer summon a pet). Then remove the crit block on pounce.

3. Change Hack to (Heavy Swings) a toggle ability that give 10% damage bonus, but adds 15% to build up times, offsetting the now not so free Loner tactic.

[space44]

talk about that stuff when you reach rr80 and unlocked all your points

[anarchypark]

I think ppl are too much occupied in aoe/st/util classification.
hunter is pet and self equal tree.
ER is aoe version of CS. ok with hunter concept.

pounce can be used for pet saving?
send pet first then pounce.
If there's pet guard skill again.

I think pounce is also fit well in axeman.
search low hp then pounce + finisher.
maybe switch pounce with primal fury.

[Arendollus]

talk about that stuff when you reach rr80 and unlocked all your points

With all due respect, that won't make a difference.

[Arendollus]

I think ppl are too much occupied in aoe/st/util classification.
hunter is pet and self equal tree.
ER is aoe version of CS. ok with hunter concept.

pounce can be used for pet saving?
send pet first then pounce.
If there's pet guard skill again.

I think pounce is also fit well in axeman.
search low hp then pounce + finisher.
maybe switch pounce with primal fury.

That's all there is in the game. AOE, Single, Utility.

What I've proposed eliminates the points of consternation in the class.

[Bowldancer]

talk about that stuff when you reach rr80 and unlocked all your points

The gatekeeping is real. He doesn't even get another Mastery point.

[phononHYPE]

Full Grown is good where it is IMO. That high in the tree and you will have significant buffs getting it, and gives a good choice of Hunter+Axe or Axe+Guardian. If it was in the first slot of Guardian, which is already a very nice tree (even before Pounce move), then there is no reason to really not get it. WL is one of the few classes that doesn't seem tactic starved, and throwing in Full Grown is an easy way to soft cap strength real early, or allow you to swap those strength talismen later on for other things. It is a very nice tactic.

I'm liking the place WL is in right now, with distinct aoe/single/utility trees, and spreading out the major abilities in them.

[Arendollus]

Full Grown is good where it is IMO. That high in the tree and you will have significant buffs getting it, and gives a good choice of Hunter+Axe or Axe+Guardian. If it was in the first slot of Guardian, which is already a very nice tree (even before Pounce move), then there is no reason to really not get it. WL is one of the few classes that doesn't seem tactic starved, and throwing in Full Grown is an easy way to soft cap strength real early, or allow you to swap those strength talismen later on for other things. It is a very nice tactic.

I'm liking the place WL is in right now, with distinct aoe/single/utility trees, and spreading out the major abilities in them.

I agreed that WL was made more logical with the last patch. Just that it still suffers from identity issues, and I feel changes similar to what I've suggested go a long way to making the class even more actualized in line with others such as SW, SM etc.

By the way...there are classes already that can pass soft cap at RR 35. Full grown being low in guardian in place of a useless PVE tactic ins't overpowered at all.

[Sundowner]

Full Grown is good where it is IMO. That high in the tree and you will have significant buffs getting it, and gives a good choice of Hunter+Axe or Axe+Guardian. If it was in the first slot of Guardian, which is already a very nice tree (even before Pounce move), then there is no reason to really not get it. WL is one of the few classes that doesn't seem tactic starved, and throwing in Full Grown is an easy way to soft cap strength real early, or allow you to swap those strength talismen later on for other things. It is a very nice tactic.

I'm liking the place WL is in right now, with distinct aoe/single/utility trees, and spreading out the major abilities in them.

WL nowadays literally do not has that distinction, what are you smoking?

[Mordd]

So pounce was moved to the pet line. You have to spec 5 points into the pet line to get pounce.
Loner tactic which gives you the ability to spam pounce has one requirement. you can not have a pet up.
So if you want to use loner and use the spammable pounce, You have to spec into a line that you are explicitly forbidden to use.

Not only has the range been made almost useless. The WL has to waste 5 points into a line he cant even use to get it.

Your first flaw in your thought is guardian is a utility tree. Its a pet tree, which is forbiden use for loner spec and full pounce use.