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[WL] Pet reliability

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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PlagueMonk
Posts: 117

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#41 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:18 pm

knick wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:46 pm
Meliannia wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:36 pm
Spoiler:
remove bugged to hell Fetch it either does nothing or kills the player more times than it actually works

give white lion player a mobile melee pull like maru and choppa called "Come To the Cat."
give slayer player a mobile melee pull like maru oir choppa called "Get To The Ginga."

or remove pulls from game.

stop the one way mirrors

then we would have a game.
both of your suggestions makes no sens. fetch works not perfect but is by far away from unusable. To be honest i like the way it is. People dont know what my lions intention is when my cat is running around or towards them. Is it a fetch or silence or a kd maybe she only wants to hug you and get some caresses. Play with it its much fun.

A tip here is to use speed training and binding fetch on a key.
To be honest if you play TTK or TTT "speed training" is a must have tactic.
In my experience they see a lion coming and just outright kill it. No need to worry about who it's target was. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. You have no idea when the Mara pull is going to happen, you just all of a sudden get tugged into a pile of red names and die. Sending the lion out telegraphs your ability, allowing Dest to counter it. And I have never been about to figure out if Fetch can be resisted?

It's a clearly inferior tool to the Marauder version plus if you play Loner it isn't even an option. Marauder gets to keep all of their utility 100% of the time but if the WL plays Loner we lose all sorts of things.
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Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#42 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:03 pm

PlagueMonk wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:18 pm
knick wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:46 pm
Meliannia wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:36 pm
Spoiler:
remove bugged to hell Fetch it either does nothing or kills the player more times than it actually works

give white lion player a mobile melee pull like maru and choppa called "Come To the Cat."
give slayer player a mobile melee pull like maru oir choppa called "Get To The Ginga."

or remove pulls from game.

stop the one way mirrors

then we would have a game.
both of your suggestions makes no sens. fetch works not perfect but is by far away from unusable. To be honest i like the way it is. People dont know what my lions intention is when my cat is running around or towards them. Is it a fetch or silence or a kd maybe she only wants to hug you and get some caresses. Play with it its much fun.

A tip here is to use speed training and binding fetch on a key.
To be honest if you play TTK or TTT "speed training" is a must have tactic.
In my experience they see a lion coming and just outright kill it. No need to worry about who it's target was. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. You have no idea when the Mara pull is going to happen, you just all of a sudden get tugged into a pile of red names and die. Sending the lion out telegraphs your ability, allowing Dest to counter it. And I have never been about to figure out if Fetch can be resisted?

It's a clearly inferior tool to the Marauder version plus if you play Loner it isn't even an option. Marauder gets to keep all of their utility 100% of the time but if the WL plays Loner we lose all sorts of things.
Also mara has crit damage modifier without needing pet, crit chance tactic, armor debuff, wounds debuff and heal debuff tactic in one tree, 50% armor ignore on mutated abilities (wl has 50% armor ignore only on 2 aoe skills), can easily switch to brut stance for survival, ST skills have higher stat modifiers but yeah for finisher you need to stance dance, so all of this is 100% justified :lol:

oh yeah forgot, mSH git em! is not nerfed as WL's CS was.

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Brutinho
Posts: 164

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#43 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:42 am

Bucinator wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:27 am Hello everyone,

Before I jump into the topic, I want to clarify several things:
  • I've read most forum posts about WL and their pet
  • I've gone through the bug-tracker and checked all open topics and issues with WL
  • I'm not as experienced as other players on this forum (lvl 39/rr38)
With that being said, I've been playing my white lion for quite some time recently, and I've observed several bugs that impact my gameplay by quite a bit.
  • Issue: Pet often disappears without any reason.
    How I track it: I've added Revenge tactic and buffhead so I can track if the lion is killed or it simply vanishes. Yesterday, my lion vanished 5 times in the span of 5 minutes, without me being in combat
  • Issue: Pet training provides inconsistent damage
    How I track it: I've tried engaging in combat with PET only on the same target with Trained to Hunt (str bonuses). Sometimes my pet hits for 100, sometimes for 250, sometimes for 15, sometimes for 35.
  • Issue: Pet survivability and damage received
    How I track it: I'm checking the damage numbers in the combat logs
The observed behavior caused absolute chaos with my rotation and skills:
  • I'm going CS and suddenly, I have no pet.
  • I'm going for parry build and suddenly, I have 10% less parry chance.
  • I'm trying to burst someone down and suddenly, my lion does 35 dmg, while I do 250
  • When doing oRvR, pet survivability is all over the place. Sometimes it lasts for several fights, sometimes it dies for 2 seconds. I think this is caused due to movement issues and the ability of the enemy to focus on it.

I have seen that those bugs are reported, but for now, due to those inconsistencies, I'm forced into loner tactic (don't judge, I like consistency and no surprises).
Does anyone of you experience the same issues? How are you dealing with that?
Hey man, I haven't played WL any meaningful time on RoR, but I have some experience on my SH which faces similar issues to what you discribe.

A few tips in order to mitigate the pain in the ass that pets can be:
- When you are sub 40 (and bolstered) in split zones like t2 and t3 it happens sometimes, at 40 you won't have to deal with that specific problem
- Keybind 'Heel' and 'Attack' commands and leave you pet on passive to better control it.
- When going through tunnels on t2 your pet will desapear and sometimes even go on CD. Just press ' Heel' and wait for him to come running. If you have 'Enemy' addon is even better as they get an icon so you can track them as they are getting closer to you.
- Try not to send your pet too far away as it will dispawn

Hope that helps.
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knick
Posts: 206

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#44 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:49 am

Sundowner wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:03 pm
Spoiler:
PlagueMonk wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:18 pm
knick wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:46 pm

both of your suggestions makes no sens. fetch works not perfect but is by far away from unusable. To be honest i like the way it is. People dont know what my lions intention is when my cat is running around or towards them. Is it a fetch or silence or a kd maybe she only wants to hug you and get some caresses. Play with it its much fun.

A tip here is to use speed training and binding fetch on a key.
To be honest if you play TTK or TTT "speed training" is a must have tactic.
In my experience they see a lion coming and just outright kill it. No need to worry about who it's target was. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. You have no idea when the Mara pull is going to happen, you just all of a sudden get tugged into a pile of red names and die. Sending the lion out telegraphs your ability, allowing Dest to counter it. And I have never been about to figure out if Fetch can be resisted?

It's a clearly inferior tool to the Marauder version plus if you play Loner it isn't even an option. Marauder gets to keep all of their utility 100% of the time but if the WL plays Loner we lose all sorts of things.
Also mara has crit damage modifier without needing pet, crit chance tactic, armor debuff, wounds debuff and heal debuff tactic in one tree, 50% armor ignore on mutated abilities (wl has 50% armor ignore only on 2 aoe skills), can easily switch to brut stance for survival, ST skills have higher stat modifiers but yeah for finisher you need to stance dance, so all of this is 100% justified :lol:

oh yeah forgot, mSH git em! is not nerfed as WL's CS was.
i´m total aware of Marauder skills and tactics. Yes a Mara have armor wounds and heal debuff in one tree. But stance dance relay hamper. Debuff and medium dmg or Much dmg with no debuff. I dont want to argue here pros and cons of WL vs Marauder because Marauder is not a full mirror to us. Anything has pro and cons. As far as i can say Marauder is a fair match to Wl in Dmg. Only thing i can complain about is the fact that WL is my eyes the inflexibles class in RoR. A Marauder or SH can handle by far more situations than a WL can (and there ar many as WL). As WL there are enemy's you can simple not kill by design- JDK´s for example.(i never understood why a main dmg ability also heals for 350% and is Spirit dmg :roll: )

The reason why CS is nerfed while git em! stays untouched i dont know. I asked a developer by PM but never receive a answer. Maybe git em! was never buffed like CS? I dont know.
[Kraehenfeld] Knick WL RR85+

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Sundowner
Posts: 468

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#45 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:18 am

knick wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:49 am
Sundowner wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:03 pm
Spoiler:
PlagueMonk wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:18 pm

In my experience they see a lion coming and just outright kill it. No need to worry about who it's target was. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. You have no idea when the Mara pull is going to happen, you just all of a sudden get tugged into a pile of red names and die. Sending the lion out telegraphs your ability, allowing Dest to counter it. And I have never been about to figure out if Fetch can be resisted?

It's a clearly inferior tool to the Marauder version plus if you play Loner it isn't even an option. Marauder gets to keep all of their utility 100% of the time but if the WL plays Loner we lose all sorts of things.
Also mara has crit damage modifier without needing pet, crit chance tactic, armor debuff, wounds debuff and heal debuff tactic in one tree, 50% armor ignore on mutated abilities (wl has 50% armor ignore only on 2 aoe skills), can easily switch to brut stance for survival, ST skills have higher stat modifiers but yeah for finisher you need to stance dance, so all of this is 100% justified :lol:

oh yeah forgot, mSH git em! is not nerfed as WL's CS was.
i´m total aware of Marauder skills and tactics. Yes a Mara have armor wounds and heal debuff in one tree. But stance dance relay hamper. Debuff and medium dmg or Much dmg with no debuff. I dont want to argue here pros and cons of WL vs Marauder because Marauder is not a full mirror to us. Anything has pro and cons. As far as i can say Marauder is a fair match to Wl in Dmg. Only thing i can complain about is the fact that WL is my eyes the inflexibles class in RoR. A Marauder or SH can handle by far more situations than a WL can (and there ar many as WL). As WL there are enemy's you can simple not kill by design- JDK´s for example.(i never understood why a main dmg ability also heals for 350% and is Spirit dmg :roll: )

The reason why CS is nerfed while git em! stays untouched i dont know. I asked a developer by PM but never receive a answer. Maybe git em! was never buffed like CS? I dont know.
I am not arguing for WL vs Mara, different classes with different roles (mainly), sets of tools. As you say, both mara and mSH are flexible, to me they are very polished, with good synergies between their mastery trees. That's how all classes should be designed. first, identify their role (or identity as we call it), then work up that set of skills and masteries compliment this identity without overbuffing it. WL's main role, as I and probably original designers saw it, is very mobile mdps mainly focused on burst damage. This is why WL has not much sustained dmg (shattering blow and blindside were buffed after) and no outgoing hd, aoe kd, aoe cd increaser etc. I am just dissapointed in recent changes devs clearly did not understand why class was designed the way it was or straight up decided nerfing it by nerfing pounce greatly (if mobility was an issue, they could have nerfed cooldown for example, but 20ft nerf for me took the edge WL had performing its main task) and messed up mastery trees, which effectively accomplished two things: you cant slot HD and FG (two very good tactics and must have for several specs) and you can't go very up in hunter for ST (this results in lower damage from FO and CS). Yes, WL had not very cohesive hunters tree with both aoe and st abilities, but nothing changed in that regard, that tree is still a mess, but now we have -1 build for WL. good job.

CS and git em! are mirror abilities, CS was nerfed during nerfing of guardian WL, but git em! was not touched as I understand.

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PlagueMonk
Posts: 117

Re: [WL] Pet reliability

Post#46 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:28 am

Just so you are aware, the Mara IS the WLs mirror for MDPS, not the SH.

No, it's not an exact mirror as few are (only the WP and DoK I believe are true mirrors). WL have a pet component matched against the SH and the Mara has a SW stance component. However if you compare skills/abilities and trees you will see they have a lot in common.

So it's completely fair to draw comparisons between the two. The disadvantage the WL has however is, all their utility and part of their damage potential is tied to a pet mechanic that dies FAR too easily, something the Mara does not suffer from. The WL is neither compensated for this huge shortcoming, nor is the lion given the ability to survive in melee combat.

I have to say after running Loner this week, while I am getting kills, I miss that utility. Sucks I cannot leap forward and take out those fleeing from me (charge is not the same) and I cannot KD anyone. Coordinated attack also doesn't really work well. So I've lost that burst as well.

Very disappointed with the direction the class is headed :(
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