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[WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

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nat3s
Posts: 450

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#41 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:21 am

out the loop a bit, but did they buff WLs in WBs? I thought that was their designed weakness used to justify their ST burst and king of the 1v1 crown?

It does feel a bit out of whack for WLs to be power houses in all areas of play. Maybe the answer isn't to nerf them but to bring monstros Maras up to their level in terms of AoE dmg or ST burst?
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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#42 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:35 pm

Secrets wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:11 am
Omegus wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:11 am Names removed to protect the innocent (I'm glad I wasn't in this instance!). The AoE interupts (combined with the burst of WLs being WLs) allowed them to wreck havoc all instance. I believe this destro WB (which is not a pug WB) has faced the same setup 1-2 times since and won the siege mainly due to the WL group not doing a good enough job of playing to the actual rules of the scenario. Kill count still looked like a loss though!
Why is a MAGUS topping the damage charts? That's a better question.
The answer is easily observed by comparing the number of deaths: that Magus had between 33%-50% less deaths than anyone else. No idea if that was due to mythical god-like positioning or being a low priority target compared to the healers and certain DPS. Magus's who are left alone (relatively speaking) can rack up huge numbers in the city, although with everyone else dead the WB can't take advantage of the DoT pressure to spike people down.

The order WB is composed of very good players who have found a very good tactic/gimmick/setup for cities that deals great AOE damage while being able to lock down heals with a cast time, while also having excellent ST damage and mobility to go with it. The ratio of damage to kills shows the order setup is able to apply more than enough spike and anti-healing to delete people effectively over and over again.
nat3s wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:21 am out the loop a bit, but did they buff WLs in WBs? I thought that was their designed weakness used to justify their ST burst and king of the 1v1 crown?

It does feel a bit out of whack for WLs to be power houses in all areas of play. Maybe the answer isn't to nerf them but to bring monstros Maras up to their level in terms of AoE dmg or ST burst?
WLs traditionally struggled in open rvr warbands as open rvr is very messy and chaotic; WLs generally the flexibility and toolkit to respond to the numerous different threats from different directions consisting of varying amounts of people compared to BW and Slayers (hard to jump to the back-line of the zerg when there usually isn't a backline and you could be jumping into another wave of the zerg!). They excelled in smaller fights or things such as scenarios which are far more deterministic (fixed number of players, fixed objectives, etc) where deleting key targets wins the fight as opposed to zerg-busting. City sieges are basically one giant scenario and in this kind of environment WLs become a far more attractive option, usually as part of a dedicated 6-man within the warband to go and hunt key targets (i.e. delete healers).

One set of order players have managed to make mass WLs work in general and get the benefits of *enough* AoE damage (might not be the highest possible but it's enough) along with being able to easily delete vital targets. If you can quickly take out healers then the amount of AoE damage needed to take out the remaining blob is far lower than usual as there is nothing countering the damage being dealt.
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dansari
Posts: 2524

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#43 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:01 pm

Just so everyone knows: pretty sure only *one* group is doing this and they are all good players. You can't just randomly bring 6 WL to city and do well.
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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#44 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:15 pm

dansari wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:01 pm Just so everyone knows: pretty sure only *one* group is doing this and they are all good players. You can't just randomly bring 6 WL to city and do well.
Yep, 6 random WLs is easy crests. These specific people and what they've managed to work out however is devastating.
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mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#45 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:19 pm

nat3s wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:21 am out the loop a bit, but did they buff WLs in WBs? I thought that was their designed weakness used to justify their ST burst and king of the 1v1 crown?

It does feel a bit out of whack for WLs to be power houses in all areas of play. Maybe the answer isn't to nerf them but to bring monstros Maras up to their level in terms of AoE dmg or ST burst?
buff was like, i dont know, 18months ago [50%armor penn for slash and whirling axe(to be hoenst not sure), ap cost reduction for slash on the tacic AND the spell which makes it an 18(17,5)ap aoe spam]

Cimba
Posts: 376

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#46 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:46 pm

The main reason this works is that most warbands leave their backline exposed. The ones that either stay compact or spread out a lot are the ones that are more successful.

Starx
Posts: 336

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#47 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:54 pm

dansari wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:01 pm Just so everyone knows: pretty sure only *one* group is doing this and they are all good players. You can't just randomly bring 6 WL to city and do well.
A group of white lions tired of being denied spots in their alliance warbands band together to create a fearsome premade and show those classist scum that White lions can Bomb too.

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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#48 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:16 pm

Random screenshots with ridiculously mis-matched teams are always a good balance evidence!

Are there any more-or-less balanced premade vs premade examples of this tactic?
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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#49 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:47 pm

Grock wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:16 pm Random screenshots with ridiculously mis-matched teams are always a good balance evidence!

Are there any more-or-less balanced premade vs premade examples of this tactic?
The screenshot I posted was from a premade that has a very good success rate in the city (not "the best", but very good).
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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#50 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:01 pm

Omegus wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:47 pm
Grock wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:16 pm Random screenshots with ridiculously mis-matched teams are always a good balance evidence!

Are there any more-or-less balanced premade vs premade examples of this tactic?
The screenshot I posted was from a premade that has a very good success rate in the city (not "the best", but very good).
Yet you choose to hide the names, which makes me think you expect people to disagree with your assessment of that premade
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