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[WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

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Bosli
Posts: 70

[WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#1 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:10 am

The WL whirling axe and AoE interrupt is way too strong for city sieges. We fought two different premades multiple times now, and their output as well as survivability is a joke.
  • The interrupt keeps f*ing up every single healer, EVEN DOKS. Healers and Casters that are in range of more than one WL cannot get a single cast off, even if it's just a 1second cast. Every WL can interrupt two spots, and that every 10 seconds (without CD reduction). It should have a way longer cooldown or be otherwise changed, since it stacks too well.
  • Their Whirling Axe is stacking so hard, that if 4+ WL use it at the same time, it is JUST AS STRONG as a morale drop and can almost instant kill def tanks in the first few seconds of a fight.
  • Splitting up doesn't help very much, since they still hit almost as hard single target as their other spec. 2+ AoE WL jumping at a healer will still oneshot almost every healer.
  • Because they can pounce, they can instantly bomb and/or interrupt any area they want, since there simply is no way to keep them off your backline.
I REALLY hope that this gets somehow adressed, because IMO, there is nothing more boring in a game than winning by just stacking one thing (WL+WP+KOTBS).

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1826

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#2 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:24 am

Did you try compare WL abilities to Mara?
WL gets Pounce.
They both get AoE interrupt, and aoe spammer, and aoe channel dmg.
Then Mara gets also aoe Knockdown, aoe Disorient, aoe initiative debuff, aoe morale drain and aoe AP drain.
The actual ability dmg numbers when it comes to AoE spammers aren't that much different, WLs will usually just stack higher Str values + 2hander dps bonus is higher than dualwield dps bonus. WLs will usually need to run with Loner, because pet can be 2shot in largefights and receives no group heals, so running with crit tactic that requires a living pet is kinda a handicap.
WL has easier time getting to target and moving with Pounce, for sure. Meanwhile Mara gets to ignore enemy armor pen and gets to self heal while at it.

Atm WL is the 3rd best pick for city warbands on Order, right after the usual 2 top dogs, Bright Wizard and Slayer.
Mara is also at top 3 placements give or take, with Sorc and Choppa being able to out dmg it, while competing with Squig for utility and probably losing to squig in dmg race due to not having a pounce to catch targets.

In a long drawn fight between equal forces, BW and Slayer dmg will be higher than aoe WL dmg, but assuming enemy is instantly crushed, then WLs will have easier time catching and finishing off remaining targets, which looks obviously good on a dmg scoreboard, while Slayers might start lagging behind in dmg due to not being able to catch last remaining victims.

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Bosli
Posts: 70

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#3 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:04 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:24 am
Did you try compare WL abilities to Mara?
[...]
They both get AoE interrupt, and aoe spammer, and aoe channel dmg.
Then Mara gets also aoe Knockdown, aoe Disorient, aoe initiative debuff, aoe morale drain and aoe AP drain.
The big "problem" is stacking the class. You can't really stack Maras because debuffs and AP drain don't stack. Stacking WL is insanely strong however. Stacking classes is disgusting and should never be a "top performing" setup, as it's boring to be the one stacking as well as fighting them.
Also, compared to WL, a Mara has to "waste" a lot of tactic slots to be the "useful WB Mara", while the AoE WL doesn't really need any, they just go for more damage and burst.

absolom13
Posts: 10

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#4 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:09 pm

Honestly, The White Lion interrupt needs a longer cooldown. That's legit ALL it needs. if that cooldown was increased by 10 more seconds then it wouldn't be that much of an issue. the damage is a little crazy but the constant interrupt is a bit too much to deal with.

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Jildaz
Posts: 129

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#5 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:11 pm

I am not reading this joke lol.
SH pounce without CD, increase cooldown, interrupt with aoe KB, can KD...
Mara, 2 buttons spec : drain moral like crazy, Aoe KD (which interrupt any cast) ini debuff, self heal, can also pull, and dont need a pet to have all the good tactics.

WL, interrupt every 10 sec if not parried, blocked or else. Wow. Can not slot crit tactic because need active pet, cannot pull anymore, cannot silence, cannot KD.
Dmg is just "decent" but far from beeing good.
Gwelthas : WL 85 Huntlord of The Eternal Host
Gwelthaz Breizhsson: IB 82 Sergeant of the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers
Gwelzin : SL 80 Thunderer of the 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers

Gwelth : marauder 79
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Phantasm
Posts: 164

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#6 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:16 pm

Atm winning against organized WB guilds is priority for every bigger guild, therefore its pressure on getting BIS classes in WB. Let it some time when top players feed their desire for dominate and it will balanced out. Queue for city after 10mins from the start and your chance to get a fight against top guild WB will lower.

Sofong
Posts: 124

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#7 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:16 pm

pounce, armor debuff, aoe in the same tree is the issue, CS core 50% crit dmg core is the issue, bugged pet too tanky is the issue, cd too short is the issue.

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GROTRUK
Posts: 38

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#8 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:18 pm

No matter the arguments, the examples, the evidence by A+B. The White Lion will never be nerf. He's always had too many tools and survival skills. And on the official server it was worse. Let's consider ourselves fortunate that it's not the same as before.
What about the pet's bug ? Hmm ? i mean this one... that's already been mentioned by one player, but it sounds like nobody cares. It's so fun to have the same spell twice in the same second isn't it ?
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Panodil
Posts: 246

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#9 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:19 pm

What is this? WL aoe OP? This must be a first
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1826

Re: [WL] AoE spec too strong for city siege

Post#10 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:23 pm

Bosli wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:04 pm
Aurandilaz wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:24 am
Did you try compare WL abilities to Mara?
[...]
They both get AoE interrupt, and aoe spammer, and aoe channel dmg.
Then Mara gets also aoe Knockdown, aoe Disorient, aoe initiative debuff, aoe morale drain and aoe AP drain.
The big "problem" is stacking the class. You can't really stack Maras because debuffs and AP drain don't stack. Stacking WL is insanely strong however. Stacking classes is disgusting and should never be a "top performing" setup, as it's boring to be the one stacking as well as fighting them.
Also, compared to WL, a Mara has to "waste" a lot of tactic slots to be the "useful WB Mara", while the AoE WL doesn't really need any, they just go for more damage and burst.
AP drain stacks, we fought in the past NRM who ran 4 maras with AP drains, our BWs had close to no AP left.
They can rotate KDs, they can rotate the disorient.
With BORK/Choppa in group, Mara aoe interrupt is also 5 sec. Have fun fighting 4+ maras if your heals are interrupted nonstop.
1 mara is enough to delay enemy morale bomb, 2 maras is enough to DENY enemy morale gains.

You can stack maras, try a setup with 8 maras and 4 shamans with 4 bork cd reducers, your Maras will reach m2 in 10s and drop 8x1200 aoe frontal cone moral drop.
Then you hit 8 aoe channels at same time with massive armor pen advantage and watch as everything melts.
Sure,they lack pounce. Sure, their dps values are somewhat below WL values (different weapon types, forced to 2h and lacking +10parry + offhand proc swings). But Mara remains one of the best warband classes in game, and someone crying about their "mirror" that has somewhat higher dmg but absurdly inferior utility, is borderline surreal.

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