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Am spec tree changes.

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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Raggaz
Posts: 136

Am spec tree changes.

Post#1 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:31 am

Putting cleansing fire in Isha and swapping it with mistress of march to vaul and moving storm of cronos to Asuryan killed my build.

Would spec high into vaul to get energy of vaul (aoe dmg,heal). Would also take the tactic Arcing power(heal defensive target for a portion of damage done).
This trait would be used with cleansing fire, strom of cronos and energy of vaul, radiant lance.

Now. If I want to do this I have to spec into the heal tree just to get cleansing flare and also have to spec partially into Asuryan to get storm of cronos, when before I only had to spec into Asuryan to get cleansing flare and it also benefited radiant lance.

I have no idea why these skills were moved. It has killed the most viable dps/heal build using arcing power that was available. Storm of cronos worked great in vaul, and didnt mind specing into asuryan for cleasing flare.
Atleast consider swapping cleansing flare with mistress of marsh.

Cleansing flare and storm of cronos should not be in any trees other than Asuryan,vaul. Have to spec 5 points into a tree(Isha), that doesnt benefit the focus of my build, then have another 5 points to pick up storm of cronos(where cleansing flare used to be), but its in ANOTHER tree as well. Being spread out over 3 trees, with the total reduction of points that storm of cronos would have benefited from being in vaul. Not to mention I could spec higher into Asuryan that would help with radiant lance and arcing power. All of this reduces the total dmg/heal and effectiveness of using the build.

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Sulorie
Posts: 7223

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#2 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:48 am

What is the point of cleansing flare in your build?
Dealing mediocre aoe dmg in order to get some weak lifetap heals with arcing power tactic and giving all enemies free immunities?
It is a very situational skill, which only shines in rare edge cases e.g. punting enemies off a bridge or cliff. Its placement in isha tree makes sense, as heal am can use it with reduced cast time per default, as they stack force charges with healing. A situational skill with 2 sec cast time in dps spec is pure trash.
To deal aoe dmg I suggest you to use 1st tactic in mid tree.
Dying is no option.

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#3 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:10 am

I can explain some of those decisions if you'd like, as I keenly remember the discussion around them at the time. I'll adress the topics you've brought up one by one.

1) Cleansing Flare, Mistress of the Marsh and Storm of Cronos

The Cleansing Flare ability is entirely useless and any player with enough rvr experience would know that. Obviously, no offense to you, you may have used the ability to knock people off walls during sieges, and that's an entirely (and likely the only) valid way of using it. However the AM and sham both had enough issues in realising the concepts they embodied that allowing a semi-useless or at best incredibly niche ability to take up a slot in Asuryan or Vaul was unacceptable.

What's more, Mistress of the Marsh was basically a must-have for any serious build and there was rarely an occasion where you would not spec into it. The problem with leaving Mistress of the Marsh in the Isha tree was that it served as a gateway for the DPS builds to take Magical Infusion and its equivelant for shaman. The consequence of that is that the class was even more of a menace during solo roaming or ganking and was basically impossible to kill in a 6v6 scenario, if he simply applied the ability to himself just before getting hardfocused, if caught.

Storm of Cronos was a key dps ability for any build that did any damage with AM/Sham. Moving it to Asuryan made complete sense, as that is where the greatest benefit would be. It's obvious Asuryan benefits from reduced spirit resistance more than the lifetap spec, especially considering the very concept of how the lifetaps worked was about to be reworked

TL;DR it was just all around bad for the class and for those facing it too.

Edit: Imo, Cleansing Flair should just be removed all together for both AM and Shaman. The ability is just that bad. I think the healer AM could use the help in its current iteration.

2) AoE damage/heal

If you want that build to become a thing, and you're not alone in that, then what you should be discussing is the Penetrating Siphon tactic. After testing, I can say that Balance Essence was reverted to being a damage-based lifetap with no willpower component, however bizzarely Energy of Vaul stayed the way it was, being a willpower-dependant heal ability, though the 8s cooldown was thankfully lowered to 5s again, meaning you can reap full synergy benefits out of SMs Whispering Winds. As I see it, the current iteration of the damage/heal lifetap hybrid requires too many tactics to do anything worthwhile. Penetrating Siphon doesn't provide any intrinsic benefit outside of allowing EoV to deal actual damage. Your current best bet if you'd like to play that way is to stack both intellect and willpower as high as you can, forget about Divine Fury and Penetrating Siphon and simply make use of Dispell Magic, Descerning Offense, Discipline and Master of Tranquility. Your playstyle would necessitate you to rely on Swordmasters to provide Whispering Winds and for that to coincide with your Oppresor's 25% cast speed proc, allowing you to spam the ability at roughly 1.5 s cast speed for 10 seconds. Once those 10 seconds are up, you will have a reserve of force points to blow on aoe healing and hopefully high enough willpower to make it good for something.

If you'd like my opinion on this playstyle, I'd say it necessitates you to build too much of a glass cannon for the benefits Penetrating Siphon would provide. I would allow the tactic to decrease the cast time and ap cost of Balance Essence and Energy of Vaul by about 25%, at which point you would have enough benefits to go something like Divine Fury, Discerning Offense, Dispell Magic, (one open tactic slot to either use on Master of Force or something to boost your healing efficiency during Whispering Wind downtime). I think it'd actually be viable for a warband. That said, it's doubtful that AM will be changed in the near future in any way as there seem to be more important issues to deal with currently.

Cheers
Last edited by live4treasure on Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

Sulorie
Posts: 7223

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#4 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:32 am

live4treasure wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:10 am with your Oppresor's 25% cast speed proc, allowing you to spam the ability at roughly 1.5 s cast speed for 10 seconds.
You have full oppressor set? :)
Dying is no option.

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#5 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:35 am

Sulorie wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:32 am
live4treasure wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:10 am with your Oppresor's 25% cast speed proc, allowing you to spam the ability at roughly 1.5 s cast speed for 10 seconds.
You have full oppressor set? :)
No, and I'd say for anything other than the whacky dps/heal playstyle, the proc isn't very useful. If Vaul was made into a thing, though, it would be at least useful for that, since you would have to sit there for the full cast time of EoV a lot. ;)
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

Sulorie
Posts: 7223

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#6 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:38 am

live4treasure wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:35 am
Sulorie wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:32 am
live4treasure wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:10 am with your Oppresor's 25% cast speed proc, allowing you to spam the ability at roughly 1.5 s cast speed for 10 seconds.
You have full oppressor set? :)
No, and I'd say for anything other than the whacky dps/heal playstyle, the proc isn't very useful. If Vaul was made into a thing, though, it would be at least useful for that, since you would have to sit there for the full cast time of EoV a lot. ;)
I have it and it is not even worth to use with an aoe spec. :D
Dying is no option.

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#7 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:52 am

Sulorie wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:38 am
live4treasure wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:35 am
Sulorie wrote: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:32 am
You have full oppressor set? :)
No, and I'd say for anything other than the whacky dps/heal playstyle, the proc isn't very useful. If Vaul was made into a thing, though, it would be at least useful for that, since you would have to sit there for the full cast time of EoV a lot. ;)
I have it and it is not even worth to use with an aoe spec. :D
We're derailing a bit, but that might be a proc chance issue then. You basically want it to proc often enough that you'd always have it after one or two casts of an aoe fight, considering each opponent hit gives you that proc chance. I don't think the concept of 25% cast time reduction is useless by itself, considering that you don't make use of your dots in aoe. The fact that a radiant burst AM is far from useful in a warband is another topic and arguably could be said that it should be that way, considering the respectable potency of a DPS AM in single target. (Not to be confused with heal/dps am)
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

Conta
Posts: 34

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#8 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:17 pm

I clearly understand your opinion but for me the worst change was to remove %healing increased on Balanced Essence.
It gave the capability of AM to burst heal.
You can now only rely on 2 Hots + shield and then cross your fingers and pray that your target will not die while you cast your 2 sec ST heal or 2,5sec group heal.
This is the nerf and not your random spells that we can still use but in a different tree !!

I wonder now how to efficiently heal my mates in pug scenarios without any way to burst heal. When destro put a healdebuff or dmg burst you can't counter.
The worst healer of order right now.

Irina RR73 AM

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Foltestik
Posts: 682

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#9 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:59 pm

Conta wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:17 pm I clearly understand your opinion but for me the worst change was to remove %healing increased on Balanced Essence.
It gave the capability of AM to burst heal.
You can now only rely on 2 Hots + shield and then cross your fingers and pray that your target will not die while you cast your 2 sec ST heal or 2,5sec group heal.
This is the nerf and not your random spells that we can still use but in a different tree !!

I wonder now how to efficiently heal my mates in pug scenarios without any way to burst heal. When destro put a healdebuff or dmg burst you can't counter.
The worst healer of order right now.

Irina RR73 AM
... Funnel essence = best burst heal in game?

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Ugle
Posts: 589

Re: Am spec tree changes.

Post#10 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:16 pm

Bring back 50% ap cost reduction value on crit tactic pls
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