Shadow Warrior as bad as they say?

[Aethilmar]

Other Question when Sw is so Bad why i see so many?

First, you may "see so many" because of "cognitive bias" i.e. you are looking for them so you see them.

Second, they are the only archer class on Order and a lot of people like playing archer classes regardless of their actual viability.

Third, they are the "edgy" high elf and have the most interesting class fantasy (imo).

Take your pick.

[agemennon675]

I dont know what you have. I Love my Sw But i must Say i Play Complete Solo

Yeah Scout is mehh but can get results
Asw dont Know i play main skirmisch hate stance switch.

Skirmisch i love it yeah you make not much Burst Damage but permanent pressure with little fast burst.
I play him as support in sc with leading shots
In rvr pierce defence.
Yes you has no aoe but a spammable healdebuff and pierce defence and with conqueror a 100 ini debuff so you cann not aoe but fast target switch^^
I love it to see tanks dying when they tanking the zerg and dont see it coming.
And the Knockdown

Orders dont think sw get buffed hard. I think the devs make it the right way little buffing, new gear, sit and watch and work on more needed things.

Other Question when Sw is so Bad why i see so many?

Oh look they really are so many : https://imgur.com/a/liPSgql (taken from traja7's comment)

[Bergbart]

Ok thats a fact so i am was biased Sorry.

Have Played Bright Wizard to 65, Ib to 76, Mara to 82, Engineer to 56 on Live
Here a Choppa to 70 and Sw to 62.
Im a Pug...all groups never worked for me. So skirmisch Sw is Perfect for me no turrents, no pet,no Backslash, no Guard switch, no stance switch (at this state), no shitty rage mechanik, no group restrictions.

I want to kill.....no forts, no city, no shitty pve(But must all for equipp).

when i assisting and the target die thats enough for me.
Dont Misunderstand i know all players have other interrests but for pug leeching is skirmisch sw perfect for me.

P.s. I dont want troll but political is meh for me because im me sry.

[Arthem]

I dont know what you have. I Love my Sw But i must Say i Play Complete Solo

Yeah Scout is mehh but can get results
Asw dont Know i play main skirmisch hate stance switch.

Skirmisch i love it yeah you make not much Burst Damage but permanent pressure with little fast burst.
I play him as support in sc with leading shots
In rvr pierce defence.
Yes you has no aoe but a spammable healdebuff and pierce defence and with conqueror a 100 ini debuff so you cann not aoe but fast target switch^^
I love it to see tanks dying when they tanking the zerg and dont see it coming.
And the Knockdown

Orders dont think sw get buffed hard. I think the devs make it the right way little buffing, new gear, sit and watch and work on more needed things.

Other Question when Sw is so Bad why i see so many?

SW is a good solo class, of all the rdps Squig is the only better one. When you play in a team that handle your survivability and you just have to bring raw dmg its probably the worst atm as a lot of its tools were nerfed.

[Feomatar1]

I dont know what you have. I Love my Sw But i must Say i Play Complete Solo

Yeah Scout is mehh but can get results
Asw dont Know i play main skirmisch hate stance switch.

Skirmisch i love it yeah you make not much Burst Damage but permanent pressure with little fast burst.
I play him as support in sc with leading shots
In rvr pierce defence.
Yes you has no aoe but a spammable healdebuff and pierce defence and with conqueror a 100 ini debuff so you cann not aoe but fast target switch^^
I love it to see tanks dying when they tanking the zerg and dont see it coming.
And the Knockdown

Orders dont think sw get buffed hard. I think the devs make it the right way little buffing, new gear, sit and watch and work on more needed things.

Other Question when Sw is so Bad why i see so many?

SW is a good solo class, of all the rdps Squig is the only better one. When you play in a team that handle your survivability and you just have to bring raw dmg its probably the worst atm as a lot of its tools were nerfed.

at solo better sh, wh, we, wl. at small scale asw is ok, but a little worse compare to almost anyone. at 24\24+ everyone better but wh\we... Yea, sw is such a good and strong class, this is why class with best aesthetic in the game are least playable and no one dont want you see in ANY type of premade... Oh, such a powerful class sw!

[Bergbart]

Im a leeching troll look for the biggest group Zerg or order Wb (prefer premades) i dont join but running with them.

When Destros Zerg Charged i Target the nearest target Tanks but with tanks there come meeles.....so i change to the weakest meele(Hp, Utility).
when i tab and target its heal or cloth dd this go up to high priority.

The lolest thing i enjoy is pierce defence every doge or block reduce all defence -15% so Dodge, parry, disrupt, block correct me when im wrong pls.
after this Shadow sting and ini debuff(Conqueror)+ little burst make the thing.

Yeahh premades can heal/cleanse you out(But they focus on weakest one) but the loser sw with no heal support can support the Zerg very well with no effort and you feel the hate ^^

Citys and Forts are complicatet hope so for a little buff to get a spot but i dont want to be op this is boring.

P.s. Wh,Wl yeah better but you need support or you get killed in zerg fights, at skirmisch sw im "can" escape while im fighting

[Bergbart]

i

[cacafrita]

I am pretty new to this game, having only jumped in a couple of months ago with the pandemic, together with my brother and friends, so I'm aware that my opinions are still very much uninformed.

IDENTITY?
Personally, I feel the shadow warrior lacks a distinct theme or identity. It's classified as a ranged DPS class but (as several more experienced players already mentioned) it seems to be the most successful in its melee stance.

I understand that the very essence of the career is stance dancing, which is something many players (including myself) seem to resist. Personally, I like the concept and flavor of its flexible nature, but the way it currently translates into mechanics is not quite as appealing. Skills don't seem to interact with each other too much, giving me no incentive to jump into assault or pull back into scout stance.

Now, a career mechanic that is completely bound to the way a battle flows is really cool in and of itself. Destruction pushing in? The SW reaches for his sword in assault stance. The melee breaks up into a scattered mess? The SW flips to skirmish. The battlelines measure each other? The SW snaps to his scouting bow. But the class strikes me as not elusive or resilient enough for those switches.

SO, WHAT TO DO

Obviously the game doesn't need a class that can do everything well, which is why I can't even imagine how hard it is for the devs to balance it. That said, I would wager most SW players would much rather have a distinct identity or role for their class than an OP powerhouse that excels at any range.

I, like surely many others, rolled a SW because it allows me to play the archer archetype. Even so, a 10% range increase (or the BS bonus) hardly makes me better at my ranged dps role than other choices for my realm. Same goes more or less for the other stances. So, what to do?

My suggestion would be to push career identity and go all-in on the stance mechanic, by either:

• Boosting stance benefits
  Adding stance drawbacks
  And maybe consider implementing stance switching bonuses

Boosting stance benefits: The more simple number changes such as a 25% range increase for Scout stance, or boosting the speed of melee skills in Assault stance or whatever.

Stance drawbacks: To counterbalance the aforementioned changes, why not have assault stance increase cast time of bow skills by 30%, or the scout stance lower movement speed as well?

Stance switching bonuses: If the Shadow Warrior's identity is its flexible nature, then maybe it could be interesting to make stance switching a more skill-intensive mechanic. In line with the aforementioned drawbacks, increase cooldowns on switching and add a switch buff as the elf "adapts" a new combat style (switching into scout grants a brief boost to crit damage, switching into assault grants a brief boost to dodge, switching into skirmishing grants a brief boost movement speed).

I'm sure there's more interesting ideas to be implemented in these veins, but ubiquitous bonuses like movement speed could not only serve as a cool incentive for stance switching, but would also serve the fluff of the career as well.



All in all, as a fairly inexperienced player, I truly believe that betting on class identity would be the way to go. What's more is that these changes could be implemented in order of complexity; first trying out boosts to stance benefits and then (assuming this is even doable) move into stance switching mechanics.


As a final thought, thank you devs for your work. I've been having a blast with my brother and friends.
Cheers!

[Feomatar1]

I am pretty new to this game, having only jumped in a couple of months ago with the pandemic, together with my brother and friends, so I'm aware that my opinions are still very much uninformed.

IDENTITY?
Personally, I feel the shadow warrior lacks a distinct theme or identity. It's classified as a ranged DPS class but (as several more experienced players already mentioned) it seems to be the most successful in its melee stance.

I understand that the very essence of the career is stance dancing, which is something many players (including myself) seem to resist. Personally, I like the concept and flavor of its flexible nature, but the way it currently translates into mechanics is not quite as appealing. Skills don't seem to interact with each other too much, giving me no incentive to jump into assault or pull back into scout stance.

Now, a career mechanic that is completely bound to the way a battle flows is really cool in and of itself. Destruction pushing in? The SW reaches for his sword in assault stance. The melee breaks up into a scattered mess? The SW flips to skirmish. The battlelines measure each other? The SW snaps to his scouting bow. But the class strikes me as not elusive or resilient enough for those switches.

SO, WHAT TO DO

Obviously the game doesn't need a class that can do everything well, which is why I can't even imagine how hard it is for the devs to balance it. That said, I would wager most SW players would much rather have a distinct identity or role for their class than an OP powerhouse that excels at any range.

I, like surely many others, rolled a SW because it allows me to play the archer archetype. Even so, a 10% range increase (or the BS bonus) hardly makes me better at my ranged dps role than other choices for my realm. Same goes more or less for the other stances. So, what to do?

My suggestion would be to push career identity and go all-in on the stance mechanic, by either:

• Boosting stance benefits
  Adding stance drawbacks
  And maybe consider implementing stance switching bonuses

Boosting stance benefits: The more simple number changes such as a 25% range increase for Scout stance, or boosting the speed of melee skills in Assault stance or whatever.

Stance drawbacks: To counterbalance the aforementioned changes, why not have assault stance lower increase cast time of bow skills by 30%, or the scout stance lower movement speed as well?

Stance switching bonuses: If the Shadow Warrior's identity is its flexible nature, then maybe it could be interesting to make stance switching a more skill-intensive mechanic. In line with the aforementioned drawbacks, increase cooldowns on switching and add a switch buff as the elf "adapts" a new combat style (switching into scout grants a brief boost to crit damage, switching into assault grants a brief boost to dodge, switching into skirmishing grants a brief boost movement speed).

I'm sure there's more interesting ideas to be implemented in these veins, but ubiquitous bonuses like movement speed could not only serve as a cool incentive for stance switching, but would also serve the fluff of the career as well.



All in all, as a fairly inexperienced player, I truly believe that betting on class identity would be the way to go. What's more is that these changes could be implemented in order of complexity; first trying out boosts to stance benefits and then (assuming this is even doable) move into stance switching mechanics.


As a final thought, thank you devs for your work. I've been having a blast with my brother and friends.
Cheers!

2 much balance work. assault sw needs movement speed buff after shadowstep, plus i think sw and sh must be able to use riposte tactic. this will make em a bit better slayers\maras etc in 6v6 and comparable to wl. But this is hard to balance to, so i prefer just give asw sprint on shadowstep, cuase this ability doesnt work as gapcloser if target move at all, and asw feels cripple in this sort of situations.
scout and skirmish needs some kind of aoe stacking damage debuff to be usefull in large scale, thats all. So sw's needs just a little love, and i doubt that full rework needed, just some quality of life changes.

[cacafrita]

(...) So sw's needs just a little love, and i doubt that full rework needed, just some quality of life changes.

Oh I agree. If there's anything I'd like to stick from my long ass post, it's this.

But I would insist on not downplaying career identity, which the SW seems to lack.