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White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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facundo7777
Posts: 402

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#101 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:31 am

Mykomark wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:29 am R.I.P WL "goodbye my sweet elven prince". But if serious I considering myself as a loner type and WL guardian was the way to go (I have only WL, played him about 1yr) guess time to reroll for solo Magus.
perfect rework that more ppl will join to outnumbered faction

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live4treasure
Posts: 270

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#102 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:35 am

Spoiler:
soliticks wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:09 am I don't know...I think you just have to look at it logically and ask the right questions.

1. Was Guardian OP in 6v6? No it wasn't even accepted in the group. Pet killed instantly.

2. Was Guardian OP in warbands? No for the same reason as above.

3. Was Guardian OP in maybe 2 warbands? No

4. Was Guardian OP in 1 v 1's? God yes, nearly impossible to win. I think that's your answer.

I'm not one of those people that would fault developers for balancing this game around 1 v 1. I fully understand the sentiment. But if you felt the class was overperforming in duels, all it would have required was a number adjustment. -X% damage across the board would have been received so much better by the White Lion community.

People play the classes they do for a distinct reason. I know of very few White Lions that leveled the class and played it with the hopes that they and their lion could spin in circles with an aoe build in giant warbands (none in fact). They played the lion because it was practically the anticlass to Rdps, and it was notorious for being a great roaming class and small-scale fighter.

In that sense, the same could be said of Witch Elves and Witch Hunters. I doubt anyone went to the character selection screen, saw a naked elf with daggers, and said to themselves..."Now that looks like something I can join a warband and aoe stuff with". They rolled the class to be what it is...an assassin that can dispatch enemies quickly and disappear.

This is why most roamers are White Lions, Witch Elves, and Witch Hunters (with the exception of Toughness Magi, some Blackguards, Monstrosity Marauders, Bouncin Squig Herders, Thargrimm for w/e lonely reason, and of course, Volgograd ^^). Ganking people heading to the keep, killing afkers at BO's, locking people into 1 v x's. This is why a huge portion of these players play these classes. It's their way of having fun in this game. To take away the very reason that people play and enjoy a class in the first place...is fundamentally disheartening. To be told that they weren't nerfed because of their solo capabilities adds insult to injury.

We always had Hunter/Axe to fall back on for competitive 6v6. It was an amazing and potent class that could be respec'd to fulfill whatever role we asked of it. It now lost the whole reason many players enjoyed the class (roaming). It also has gotten weaker in the traditional Hunter/Axeman build. What did we get in return? Spinning in circles in full dps gear against warbands. Knowing that the roaming classes mentioned above retain their playstyles while we lose ours makes it even more depressing.

*edit* I never post on the forums. This class means that much to me.
Actually, I think that's slightly backwards in logic. It's the opposite, the devs don't balance this game around 1v1 at all and their primary concern is giving every class something to do in large and smallscale rvr. White Lion was great for 1v1 in basically all specs, Guardian being insanely good, but the class as a whole was awkward and gimmicky in 6v6 and completely, utterly useless in warband play. At the same time, it had the downside of being extremely frustrating to play against for many classes because it's brain dead 5 button rotation that bursts down any unguarded dps class.

So what did the devs do? They made WL viable for warband and made it far less braindead to play. There was absolutely no "balancing around 1v1" here, it's quite the opposite. Although devs do occasionally remove the most egregous 1v1 cases, that's by far not the priority. Your class got hurt by this, because you wanted to roflstomp people solo and feel like a god. Well, sorry. Instead you can now participate in actual content instead of being almost a meme, as soon as your pet dies, anywhere outside of solo roaming. That said, I'm sure you'll still find a solid solo roaming spec after WL is properly fixed if that is your true calling. You still have pounce if you spec for it and woodsman might benefit from defensive upgrades, which usually means it will have solo roam potential.

That said, there are many issues with the class the way it is right now, mostly because of technical limitations at the time of making these changes and simple human oversight of some aspects, but afaik that's being very actively worked on as we speak, so expect changes this weekend or the next.
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM

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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#103 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:37 am

The next iteration is already complete and will be pushed next patch.

Dajciekrwi
Posts: 700

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#104 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:58 am

Any changes are good for rvr. No matter nerfed - buffed some or all classes.
I personally spend 3000-4000 golds for many sometimes insane marauder builds + gear+ talis.
And i just take this as a usual part of war between Order/Destro.
So stagnation is death&loss, only changing ways is kays to live&victory!.

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#105 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:39 am

previously witnessed in Order realm chats:
"Mara is OP, I wish we had one"
these days in same chats:
"damn devs destroying the WL, I don't want to be like a mara, I want to remain unique"

Said uniqueness would somehow include; dominating 1v1 fights, being the Tyrant of Smallscale and Harvester of Pugs, having higher burst than WE or WH who don't get medium armour, "balanced Guardian" (previously criticizing this would get you warnings from authorities as salty Destro tears, until eventually you couldn't get Scs without several balanced pokemon masters and Destro solo roaming population diminished considerably in lakes due to not wanting to face such a balanced class).
Ya, class was shaite in largescale and easy to counter in 6v6 with just killing the pet, but at least it was ""unique"" in its dominance over smallscale - thank god Aza is not going for smallscale/1v1 balance but is ready to tear down the class and make it more similar to the other 5 melee classes and granting WL tools so they can have place in warband, and the previous "mystery" of Order warbands lacking melee frontline might just be fixed.

Now in "generic pug" warband warfare (which is pretty much a considerable portion of daily RvR campaign action), instead of 10 order rdps dispersing into all possible wind directions as soon as the Destro frontline crashes on them, you might be in future seeing more melee classes and less ranged pewpewers, with said melee formations actually not dispersing and running for their lives when the frontlines collide, but maybe a row of WLs and Slayers and even some WHs ready to stand with their tanks and have one melee line fight another melee line.
Isn't this what balance should be aiming towards, not so that other realm has 7 good dps classes for warband, while other realm must stack a pile of fireclowns if they want to have a good chance of winning against the horde of Destro closing in?

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Glorian
Posts: 4976

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#106 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:35 am

Heiho!

Intervention form the sideline:
With the WL Pet now back to cute cat status, can the "No Group Heal on Pets" Patch please be reverted? I think It was initially introduced to stop the Cat-Commandos jumping on the walls and munching the siege cannons and oil while being healed.

It is currently impossible to keep up a pet in Siege or AoE Situations for the other pet classes.
Gun Turrets and Pink Deamons are puffing like ballons every 5 seconds.
First hit from an AoE Cannon brings it to 30% health. Second destroys it. And that was from Siege from a 0 Star Keep.

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oaliaen
Posts: 1201

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#107 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:37 am

When Choppa got nerfed many times noone sayd a word. Now the "sweet Elven King " get the balance nerf, all cry..its so sad.
Image

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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#108 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:39 am

Glorian wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:35 am Heiho!

Intervention form the sideline:
With the WL Pet now back to cute cat status, can the "No Group Heal on Pets" Patch please be reverted? I think It was initially introduced to stop the Cat-Commandos jumping on the walls and munching the siege cannons and oil while being healed.

It is currently impossible to keep up a pet in Siege or AoE Situations for the other pet classes.
Gun Turrets and Pink Deamons are puffing like ballons every 5 seconds.
First hit from an AoE Cannon brings it to 30% health. Second destroys it. And that was from Siege from a 0 Star Keep.
Done.

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Fiskrens
Posts: 51

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#109 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:22 pm

Aurandilaz wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:39 am previously witnessed in Order realm chats:
"Mara is OP, I wish we had one"
these days in same chats:
"damn devs destroying the WL, I don't want to be like a mara, I want to remain unique"

But WL is not Mara currently

1) monst proc > Woodsman buff
2) str/tough buff is usable in brut/monst while only usable in woodsman for WL
3) no Ap regen tactic
4) no hotbar change when changing "stance"
5) no 25% dmg buff
6) 50% crit dmg requires active pet and is higher up in mastery tree
7) Hdebuff and wound debuff is very different between the two.
WL is currently a clunky and weaker imitation of mara.
If they did turn WL into a Mara mirror then atleast it would be "fair and balanced".

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larsulu
Suspended
Posts: 450

Re: White Lion Changes (8/25/2018)

Post#110 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:28 pm

Ridduk wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:30 am So many pussies on Destro....keep giving in to their whiny demands, ror team.
You serious ?
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