Melee/Assault SW

[Manatikik]

Tonight I faced again kajtarn just the moment we switched from a serious setup to a lol setup with a dps healer XD so, not serious test.
Anyway, if is legit in some strange way a 100 crit, such thing lead to free a lot of RR point (mcrit chanche) that can be invested in avoidance and raw stat. Maybe i’m in a bad mood, but my opinion is that the SW can be tanky and super dps (investing in parry and ws).
If it would be at least a glass cannon maybe would be better.
I have to admitt that kajtarn’s premade has better tanks then ours, at least better than me. But anyway. A SW focused by a bg, a black orc, a WE, a marauder and a dps DoK should fall under 50% health.

Just a random idea. I can miss something.

You being unable to kill him has nothing to do with WS or his build really (he usally only runs 2 armor talis), if 5 of you cannot get him below 50% then your premade clearly has no idea how to spike damage or fight another competent premade. Gotta knock that guard my friend; SW (even Assault) is extremely squishy and easy to bully if you're a premade. They have no gap closer or snare breaker so even just knocking him away with a snare will relieve a lot of pressure off your healers and they'll be able to catch up on cleanses/debuffs/etc. Also doesn't help Kaj is hands down the best (A)SW on the server atm

[Arteker616]

I'm just not certain as to why 100% crit chance rebuff is not seen as broken and not immediately fixed. Just blows my mind.

It's not a 100% crit chance debuff except under extreme circumstances. You would literally need to ignore initiative and intentionally spec to not have any in your build. At best it debuffs initiative by 180, which is a lot. However, it's also been possible for quite a long time, yet no one seemed to have an issue until recently. For now it's a pretty unique, and highly effective combination (25% chance to proc) on vastly underplayed spec that does have additional counters aside from stacking initiative.

Even if it were cut in half (which probably isn't going to happen), going from the hypothetical 180 initiative to 90 initiative would still result in something around 30% chance to be crit on top of whatever bonus crit the enemy is running. I'm more personally interested in the overly punishing curve that having low initiative implies where it ramps up to 100%. Flattening that out is something I could get behind.

so, my question is , where is Destro counter to this, because if memory isnt wrong , When the crit amplifiers of order classes where cut in half the answer of devs was now Destru morale pumpers was next to balance out the lack of order hitting power.

Because what u saying is , if u want to survive to this combo u gotta forsaken every different approach to the game possible if u still want to have a chance .

that lead to a toal imbalance of factions since order doesnt have to adapt to nada ,Destro can by ur answer by default bend over and spec for anti mele sw debuff or just get destroyed, while order can still keep a flexibility destru lacks because they cannot field anything like this.

Im not sure if u remember realy the fuss about choppa ini debuff back on live , because this is eactly the same . and well everyone who played choppa remember what happened to wtyf.
p.s this still remember me of someone wich i cannot name saying the old 6vs6 Destru build around x3 procs was gamebreaking because order could just field x2 procs (in the case of the bork assist dps was even x4 procs).

[wargrimnir]

I'm just not certain as to why 100% crit chance rebuff is not seen as broken and not immediately fixed. Just blows my mind.

It's not a 100% crit chance debuff except under extreme circumstances. You would literally need to ignore initiative and intentionally spec to not have any in your build. At best it debuffs initiative by 180, which is a lot. However, it's also been possible for quite a long time, yet no one seemed to have an issue until recently. For now it's a pretty unique, and highly effective combination (25% chance to proc) on vastly underplayed spec that does have additional counters aside from stacking initiative.

Even if it were cut in half (which probably isn't going to happen), going from the hypothetical 180 initiative to 90 initiative would still result in something around 30% chance to be crit on top of whatever bonus crit the enemy is running. I'm more personally interested in the overly punishing curve that having low initiative implies where it ramps up to 100%. Flattening that out is something I could get behind.

Seriously man? like are you trolling me? if so it's working... My chosen is specc'd into initiative and it goes to 95% chance to be crit.. not to mention in the patch notes it states that if you are lowered to zero it automatically makes it 100% chance to be crit, so any class with lower base initiative crushes them.. the fact that ONLY ONE faction can reach that crit potential is just another layer on top of it even being an option is insane

I suppose I could leave the conversation alone and no one would bother commenting on it. I'm not interested in mirroring, never have been and arguments in that direction don't gain much traction with us. There are unique advantages to each realm. This particular advantage seems overtuned and I'm more interested in the curve attached to low initiative values.

Both realms have the ability to debuff initiative in different ways, and until we have the ability to make significant changes, this is a long standing tactic that is designed on the client end to stack with ability based initiative debuffs, which the Conq proc counts as. It also works to a slightly lesser degree with Eye Shot, which is the speccable RKD in the skirmish tree. There's a handful of other classes that can debuff initiative as well, but if you're making the point that one class can do it the best, you are correct. One class can do it the best.

I'll also be happy to point out again that this is on an largely underplayed melee spec on a ranged class, one which does not have the common tools that proper MDPS classes have, and suffers for it. They don't have a significant HP pool, they gain no bonus resistances or disrupt for their melee spec. Instead of their one trick festerbomb from 110' away, now I suppose they're a one-trick initiative debuffer in a much more risk-averse battlefield position. Their vulnerability lies in getting nuked by either a Sorc, Magus, or a DPS healer.

If my previous statement somehow comes off as trolling to you, I dunno mate. Certainly wasn't intended that way.

[Valfaros]

I'll also be happy to point out again that this is on an largely underplayed melee spec on a ranged class, one which does not have the common tools that proper MDPS classes have,...

I don't know how many SC's you play as groups but we usually get a laugh from this statement while it's true that you don't see them often in pugs (like any meele class) you see them quite frequently now in groups esp in EU. It's okay though it's gotten quite funny to call for "oh look at that a meele sw that's something new I don't think I ever saw one of those" every few minutes....

Let's say we just are unlucky and happen to meet meele sws all the time since when are you guys balancing around how many play a spec. I certainly didn't see any WL nerfs and they happen to stand at every corner across orvr and in nearly every single sc. That seems like a strange thing to me really. Furthermore you are comparing appels to oranges here one is a range spec (we all know order like rdps for pugs) and the other is meele (more prefered by premades and therefore already more unlikly to meet)...so are we balancing around pug players now or what I thought you guys don't am I seeing something wrong here.

Then you say they lack common tools that proper MDPS classes have; well you didn't had a problem with nerfing DPS Dok procs although they lack common meele dps tools aswell. Now what do we have with meele SW a class having easily more armor and dmg then dok while being able to debuff the enemy team to 100% crit and to therefore recieve a additional proc from "Blurring Shock" with every single hit. How is that any different Blurring Shock was clearly not build around of every single hit giving the proc.
The only thing meele sw does not have compared to dok is dmg heal but we all know how terrible dmg heal can get against guardedand heavy armored classes like the sw for example.
One last thing don't forget we are speaking about crits here something a lot of classes benefit heavily due to 50% dmg crit tactics.

Don't know what I have to say to this. Atleast you consider changing the crit curve which sounds a lot more reasonable then the previous postion to the matter we got.

[Scrilian]

You're simply clueless, melee SW is the SW spec right now. If you're running ranged SW you're playing a suboptimal build akin to melee WP, not the other way around.

I'm quite baffled that people here can actually defend this. Can this be countered? Yes but not fully and you have to: spend 40 ranks worth of renown, get 3-4 ini talis, have a BG/BO with you all the time while the enemy team doesn't have to because there's NO MIRROR.

It's ridiculous because order can go fully defensive with their renown since they get permanent, easily appliable, spamable 100% crit anyway and EVEN IF destro specs into ini/gets ini talis they might survive a might longer but they'll will lose a lot of potential avoidance/crit.

I mean, look at the graph. You need an insane investment into initiative just to counter this one tactic of one class.

To me it looks like you need to stack some initiative.

[Foomy44]

I certainly didn't see any WL nerfs and they happen to stand at every corner across orvr and in nearly every single sc.

The last 4 white lion changes have been a nerf to their pet's aoe damage immunity, a nerf to the damage on their pet when it's far from the WL, a nerf to their knockdown duration, and a nerf to fetch by giving it a minimum range. I hate WLs as much as anyone, probably moreso since I have a guardian WL in almost BiS gear so I'm fully aware of how insanely overpowered they are in small scale, but let's not spread false info. They have gotten nerfs and hopefully will get a lot more.

[footpatrol2]

So... I forgot what RoR did to Force of fury on the BG and don't feel like digging up that info but the AoR version of Force of fury which... I think it should be brought back... would help dramatically with the 100% crit thang. 45% reduction "TO BE CRIT" to the tank and his friend is powerful. BG also has "Chance to crit" ST reducer's.

You also had beefy defensive morale cycle's which got taken away/unreasonable timeframe due to morale rates. Although you'd crit you'd have to chew through REALLY high mitigation. Mythic took that away but whatever.

You need to be carrying multiple sets of gear on you with different loadouts on tali's. If you can't be "bothered" then get farmed. It's not like merc and anni full sets are hard to get.

Initiative was always important. A lot of the later sets of gear had a power creep on initiative.

To be clear, I don't think the double tap down on initiative is bad even at it's current exponential curve. I think having a initiative debuff tied to set gear is TOO GOOD especially at this gear state. I also think eye shot should be baseline along with it's rkd.

I don't think AoR conq gear had a initiative debuff but I could be wrong which is the issue I have with the sw atm. The RoR gear sets are made out of archtype. AoR set gear was class specific and not archtype. Your going to run into issue's if you base gear sets based on archtype's.

Also, This game was never designed to have RR80 player's running around in conq gear level's.

The game is balanced in it's viciousness and player's with thin skin won't like it. It's not a very casual game even thou a lot of player's view/play it as such.

[rmpl]

You're simply clueless, melee SW is the SW spec right now. If you're running ranged SW you're playing a suboptimal build akin to melee WP, not the other way around.

I'm quite baffled that people here can actually defend this. Can this be countered? Yes but not fully and you have to: spend 40 ranks worth of renown, get 3-4 ini talis, have a BG/BO with you all the time while the enemy team doesn't have to because there's NO MIRROR.

It's ridiculous because order can go fully defensive with their renown since they get permanent, easily appliable, spamable 100% crit anyway and EVEN IF destro specs into ini/gets ini talis they might survive a might longer but they'll will lose a lot of potential avoidance/crit.

I mean, look at the graph. You need an insane investment into initiative just to counter this one tactic of one class.

To me it looks like you need to stack some initiative.

I don't need to, playing order currently and of course I've invested in some initative anyway because it's a good stat but you don't need a crazy amount of it as you do on destro.

[footpatrol2]

Order and Destro should gear differently.

[Scrilian]

>tfw selling Ini talismans on destro now