Buffing the Shadow Warrior/What change would you like to see?

[Eshouz]

If we follow your example and do not compare any skills at all to eachother - how does one determine or achieve what should be considered average or the norm in terms of balancing?

One thing I agree with is that snare is soft cc, but the whole snare and kd on diffirent skills is why the contidional was there in the first place. Overall I think you should read my previous post again and maybe try to come up with a more solid counter argument other than it was crappy. If you manage to comprehend the fact that my suggestion - actually in some ways - buffs the SW & opens up better possibilities as far as rotations go, maybe one day we can have a intellectual conversation!

Pretending to create norms and balance 12*2 classes that are not similar in terms of CC, dps, defensive skills and so on is a sweet dream. You can always work to narrow differencies, but there will always be X stronger than Y on something or at some time. Saying "hey, all rkd's have conditions, SW's has not, so let's make it all the same" does not solve anything, unless you want all archetypes to be strictly identical. Balacing is about the whole class and all its possibilities, not picking something in particular and focusing on it.

Yes, SW kd is the probably on the best CC of the game, so what? Does it make it so op we have to change it back when it was on VoN condition? I don't think so, the class has drawbacks as every class has, get along with it. Your suggestion doesn't open any better possibilities, what would be better than a non-cond rkd? If this rkd+init debuff bothers you so much, I'd have no problem to have a condition (or even using VoN) on the debuff to apply.

Btw, suggesting your interlocutor have comprehesion issues does not make him wanting to have an intellectual conversation.

[Ugle]

I don't mind making rkd conditional with VoN. If so it should be tied to eye shot and be made available in all stances though. Give and take. Hard cc and soft cc tied to same ability should be avoided.

Remember the changes were made because SW was underperforming on live.

[Ugle]

1. Make detaunt aoe in assault stance.
2. Reduce ap cost of grim slash.

3. Make full transfer range crit chance to mele in Assault stance

it would be enough.

This would make it OP and there would be no one speccing into assault tree becasue you get all the goodies for free

Sorry for double post.

[Tankbeardz]

I don't mind making rkd conditional with VoN. If so it should be tied to eye shot and be made available in all stances though. Give and take. Hard cc and soft cc tied to same ability should be avoided.

Remember the changes were made because SW was underperforming on live.

Remember that SW was super OP near the end. The changes were too much.

[Ugle]

I can agree to some extent, the changes were implemented the wrong way. Don't agree to the "super op" statement though, rather easymode, in the form that the took away the skill ceiling for utilizing the class. Suddenly there was no difference between a SW in the hands of a good player and a mediocre player ( like myself ).

Also you gotta see the gear level towards the end of AOR, wich broke the game in all possible ways, reducing any impact of career balancing made.

Anyways, what I meant with my comment was "be wary when balancing not to make classes either OP or UP".
*Squints toward engie/magi changes*
Doing small itirative changes is the best way to proceed.

[dansari]

I'll preface this by saying I'm certainly not as experienced or knowledgeable about the game's many facets or even the SW specifically as some of the posters here, so these ideas may be crap and I won't take offense to them being called as such.

Curious as to what more experienced/knowledgeable players think of the suggestion to swap tactics on stance change. This *could* allow SWs to implement the suggested changes by others (reduce AP on Grim Slash and have an AOE detaunt) on their own... If they spec far enough into Assault they could theoretically get Merciless Soldier tactic (reduce AP cost of Assault skills by 35%) and if you could set a tactic to a stance you would have to weigh the pros/cons of adding things like the AOE detaunt tactic (Distracting Rebounds) over another Assault-centric tactic (Wrist Slash - steal ws/int from target on Grim Slash, Sinister Assault - Brutal Assault bypass all of target's armor, etc.) So are you soloing in orvr and might not need the AOE detaunt if you're intending on finding 1v1s, or are you in a SC where it's crucial you have that tactic? That kinda thing. It would also encourage stance dancing more, since it would be more beneficial to receive the tactic bonuses depending on the situation you're in, and would create a higher skill cap for SWs seeing as each situation would require a conscious decision based on which stance and tactics are best.

It could also negate the need for an offhand weapon, as someone else suggested because I think you could get a lot out of those assault tactics.. most of them are awesome (No Respite - +15% dmg to target as long as you're within 45 feet - comes to mind). I just never find myself slotting them because A. I'm much more suited for backline/moving/kiting DPS, and B. I'm much too squishy vs a destro melee train to make use of them for long.

It could also open more options up for players looking to become that jack of all trades like the lore entails. Personally I'm not specced assault currently because it doesn't give enough back for the points to be worth it, and there are simply too many essential other tactics that are utilized more often (I'd say 60% of my time is spent in Skirm, 30% in Scout, and 10% in Assault).

But, that also frees you up from needing to slot something like Powerful Draw (increase Skirm skills range by 50%) in Assault stance, which in some ways could be a buff that would make SWs op. I agree that there's nothing wrong with Scout and Skirm currently, and any changes need to ensure that these don't get stronger as a result. Then, in fairness, I think you'd have to have a discussion about setting tactics to stances with Mara as well, and I'm not sure I want Norkalli any stronger. Anyway.. wall of text over. Thoughts?

[Elftwin95]

Interesting input and idea, thank you Dansari

[kasumi]

Buffing a class that can crit robes for 4k with festering arrow, that's hilarious.

[blaqwar]

A point I was going to bring up when someone mentioned Eye Shot being OP is that overperforming aspects of a career need to be toned down and balanced before the career as a whole can be rebalanced. I believe this is the RoR dev team's stance on career balancing as well, judging from the Unshakable Focus nerf on Engineers when their overhaul happened.

In which case I'm sure Unshakable Focus and Eye Shot would get looked at.

[dansari]

Buffing a class that can crit robes for 4k with festering arrow, that's hilarious.

No one is suggesting buffing anything about the Scout and Skirmish stances. The only suggestions have been around making Assault more viable.