WL worth it currently?

[Lileldys]

WL is the best frontload burst class. Works extremely well with BW backloaded burst and SW to spam HealDebuffs and their executes too.

Also helps Slayer out with WL armour debuff, and can lay solid pressure with the burst.

WL can generally take out any unhealed, unguarded dps out in 3gcds.
Pounce and FO can crit close to 1k, along with auto for 700-1.5k. Co-Ord with some luck is 2k+ and Cull the Weak is 2k. This is on light armour classes with Primal Fury up, Unguarded, Unchallenged, and doesn't count pet damage.
I'd say drop these rough damage numbers by 20-30% for med armour dps/lightarmour healer with armour talis, and DoK will probs be taking like 40-50% less.
Pounce/FO/AutoAttack in 1st gcd, Co-ord 2nd GCD, and Cull in 3rd, might get another auto in the 3rd gcd dependant on your weapon choice.

My only gripe with the class is that sometimes the pet feels miles away in large open fights(Like BlackFireBasin SC). Playing a high mobility class but the pet just seems to lagg behind, delaying burst. I'd have to play my WL a bit more to figure what the problem is. Maybe even try the speed training tactic

I use: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... 0:0:4262:0:

and if my pet gets focused a lot: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... 0:0:4262:0:

Not sure if the last 3 points are better in Hunter or Axeman, I haven't been bothered to look into it. Maybe something for me to look at tonight.

@LonerTacticDebate: Someone show me the damage/pressure with this tactic over packsynergy/revenge. Doubt it's worth dropping those tactics for this pile of poop.(Inb4 SuperSecretStratsgg.doc involving sending in suicide pet for loner+revenge to stack for ultimate 10s killwindow)

@Guardian spec: It's ok for solo RvR, but just don't take it into SCs/Grps. IIRC Guardian Spec would win 90% 1v1s pre-rr100 patch, but I don't know how it performed after rr100patch as dueling wasn't fun to me then. Guardian spec has next to no pressure vs Axeman, loosing that 25% damage buff and execute is too much imo.

[Combi]

This is what I played on live: http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... :4262:4272:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=wl; ... :4262:4272:

First in sc/roaming second is pure roaming. Loner: neva'

[Lileldys]

Derp, totally forgot about Lionheart. Looks like i'm spending 5g later

[Bretin]

Derp, totally forgot about Lionheart. Looks like i'm spending 5g later

as good as loner.

[Sevinn11]

Derp, totally forgot about Lionheart. Looks like i'm spending 5g later

as good as loner.

So I take it you find Lion Heart in the same category as Loner. Would it not be worth it for a great any time, magic attack with a 5 sec cool down, and no pre-req's? Could even use that skill point for the Blindsided tactic on a healer, followed up by Lions Fury. Yes, no?

The thing that has me wondering about the pet is that even when it's not bugged it's at best clunky. If I pounce my way to a healer or isolated RDPS. I'm going to need that burst/damage from the pet to down my target ASAP. It will still be running to the target on my second GCD, as in line with what Lieldys mentioned. So in this situation Loner or Speed Training would be useful I feel. Again I haven't played past T2 on a WL on live.

I've also noticed a lot of specs seem to for go Thin the Herd (outgoing heal debuff). I realize it's situational on healers only, but they are usually the first target of an MDPS am I right? Would it not be essential to have this skill unlocked?

Is Pack Hunting really that useful? It adds that much DPS at the cost of say a tactic/skill point else where with the 5% crit chance of Trained to Threaten?

I forgot to mention I'm on the East Coast of NA, so I've latency issues at times. I've found positionals don't go off when one would think, or even at all at times. Primal Fury and the Flanking tactic may not work so well for me.

[chakzo]

Pleayed WL before t4 was introduced so not only against them. From my point of view WL is by far the strongest single target dps in the game. With mobility so high that it is almost unCCable. Only thing that works is KD/Disarm not enough most of a time. WL is like big flying fireball that can not be dodged.

For solo speed training + brutalpounce
AP regen gear recommended

Didn´t want to go that far but nerf the pounce... :p

[Jaycub]

Derp, totally forgot about Lionheart. Looks like i'm spending 5g later

as good as loner.

So I take it you find Lion Heart in the same category as Loner. Would it not be worth it for a great any time, magic attack with a 5 sec cool down, and no pre-req's? Could even use that skill point for the Blindsided tactic on a healer, followed up by Lions Fury. Yes, no?

The thing that has me wondering about the pet is that even when it's not bugged it's at best clunky. If I pounce my way to a healer or isolated RDPS. I'm going to need that burst/damage from the pet to down my target ASAP. It will still be running to the target on my second GCD, as in line with what Lieldys mentioned. So in this situation Loner or Speed Training would be useful I feel. Again I haven't played past T2 on a WL on live.

I've also noticed a lot of specs seem to for go Thin the Herd (outgoing heal debuff). I realize it's situational on healers only, but they are usually the first target of an MDPS am I right? Would it not be essential to have this skill unlocked?

Is Pack Hunting really that useful? It adds that much DPS at the cost of say a tactic/skill point else where with the 5% crit chance of Trained to Threaten?

I forgot to mention I'm on the East Coast of NA, so I've latency issues at times. I've found positionals don't go off when one would think, or even at all at times. Primal Fury and the Flanking tactic may not work so well for me.

Pet should be set on passive, each target switch you should be microing the pet and sending it in beforehand. For instance in my setup "q" is assist macro "e" is pet attack command "f" is pet follow (stay) command. Whenever the shotcaller of the group calls for a switch you just simply hit q then e, and when you pull of you hit f. If you are solo same idea you just hit tab or click you target then immediately hit e.

Thin the heard is great, WL has the best mobility in the game and can easily pounce onto a healer and get that debuff in, it's especially good against double dok setups (can't cleanse WL) and you don't typically run IB w/ WL or WH so that's your only source of outgoing HD.

Haven't done the math on 50% AA haste I might do it later

As far as latency I believe the server has measures in place to help high ping players, also you would be surprised at how large/forgiving the zone of flanking is on a target.

[Jaycub]

Anyone want to help me with some AA haste math then? To state the obvious, AA haste is a scaling tactic in that it's effectiveness increases with the amount of auto attack damage you can do. So things like a better wep, higher str/crit, etc... will all increases the effectiveness of the tactic so setting up the math should be done in such a way that reflects the current endgame setup for WL.

[AA base damage x 1.(crit chance)] / Attacks per second

should give your baseline DPS from auto attacks assuming you are using the 50% crit damage multiplier?

Then you need to find the difference between the answer to the above and the adjusted answer w/ the new Attacks per second from 50% AA haste


Then you should be able to take that answer and compare it with say brute force as a baseline to see how strong the tactic is?

[balls]

I did a ton of parsing back in t2/3 and auto-attack usually amounted to 35% of total damage. Due to how the parser worked there was no way to discern between pet auto-attack and otherwise, so I assumed "true" auto-attack was responsible for ~30% of total damage.
From there it is easy to see how much of an improvement a 50% auto-attack speed increase would give.

However that is all using data from an old tier.

EDIT: As a comparison, Brute Force is usually a 14-16% increase in melee damage bonus and it is easy to assume that similar tactics have been balanced around this (Flanking at a flat 15%, for instance).

[Lileldys]

Derp, totally forgot about Lionheart. Looks like i'm spending 5g later

as good as loner.

So I take it you find Lion Heart in the same category as Loner. Would it not be worth it for a great any time, magic attack with a 5 sec cool down, and no pre-req's? Could even use that skill point for the Blindsided tactic on a healer, followed up by Lions Fury. Yes, no?

The thing that has me wondering about the pet is that even when it's not bugged it's at best clunky. If I pounce my way to a healer or isolated RDPS. I'm going to need that burst/damage from the pet to down my target ASAP. It will still be running to the target on my second GCD, as in line with what Lieldys mentioned. So in this situation Loner or Speed Training would be useful I feel. Again I haven't played past T2 on a WL on live.

I've also noticed a lot of specs seem to for go Thin the Herd (outgoing heal debuff). I realize it's situational on healers only, but they are usually the first target of an MDPS am I right? Would it not be essential to have this skill unlocked?

Is Pack Hunting really that useful? It adds that much DPS at the cost of say a tactic/skill point else where with the 5% crit chance of Trained to Threaten?

I forgot to mention I'm on the East Coast of NA, so I've latency issues at times. I've found positionals don't go off when one would think, or even at all at times. Primal Fury and the Flanking tactic may not work so well for me.

I think it's worth, It is close to the same Tooltip damage as Cull The Weak, about 10 damage off on my WL.

Its more you got to send the pet in early, especially when pushing backlines for casters/rdps. This struggles vs good rdps premades, as they will most of the time, root/kd the pet and kill it off. Pet also benefits from charge/antiroot.

Thin The Herd is pretty crap. An outgoing heal debuff doesn't help when killing dps. You can't push the backline healers effectively while 2 or 3 dps are still alive, and there is more than enough damage from WL + healdebuff from Sl/WH to take down healers.

Yeh, Pack Hunting is amazing. Auto Haste still keeps the same auto damage you'd normally be doing, but quicker. Right now, my Weapon will crit for 1.4k every 4.2 seconds. With TTH + Pack Hunting, that becomes 1.4k every 2.8s. TTH is better then TTT. The damage ticks almost constantly for 100dmg/s as well as the Auto Haste is better than 5% crit, and the pet will also be doing more damage.

AP regen gear recommended

Please no. RP/WP + Slayer/SW for all your AP needs. KotBS can also contribue a little with Stay Focused Aura.