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[Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Swordmaster, Shadow Warrior, White Lion, Archmage
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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#341 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:28 pm

Wyzard wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:34 pm
Ramasee wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:32 am Potent enchant does not scale at all. It has very little use in t4 pvp (fluff damage, 540 over 9s), but helps immensely with aoe tanking in pve.
I have to go ahead and disagree on this. T4 PVP in a warband is highly aoe focused and WoH spam + PE and Centuries of Training adds up with all of the other AOE going on to melt clumps of targets. It isn't like you're expecting to melt them solo but dmg is dmg and this is delivered aoe with the added bonus of proccing constant effects from your blade enchants.

Besides Challenging and guarding and WW, this is probably your next best addition to an AOE WB and won't take away from your main responsibilities at all.

As a measure of how much dmg it is actually generating you can simulate it in a SC where i can regularly get 100-130k in dmg if I focus on AOE and I'm full toughness SnB to boot. (Discerning offense seems to increase numbers when I've tested it but usually can't spare the slot)

With WW and using PoH/stance shift/gusting wind, you can effectively be in constant AOE mode guaranteeing refreshed dots on everyone. Not to mention the casting interrupts, cliff throws/wall throws/ram dismounts etc you get form gusting wind.

AOE SM is a big deal, imo, but yymv.
Except that it isn't 540 damage over 9s to all the targets you are hitting. It is a 25% chance to proc that damage on each target for each AoE. If you are in a bombing warband, targets should be dying before 9s is up. If your warband needs the comparatively minuscule damage from these tactics, you just need to replace your actual damage classes.

The best addition you bring to a bomb warband after WW, guard, challenge, gusting winds, and raze is hold the line. You need 6 tanks using hold the line in order to cover the whole warband with htl stacks to 3; and that is far more important than your (130K / 8min / 60s = 271 AoE dps). Also you should NOT be using gusting wind on cooldown unless you like handing out immunities so that knockbacks are ineffective when they are actually needed.

Gusting winds is used for the following situations:
1. Interrupting enemy raze morale dump.
2. Attempting to break a shield wall. Usually works best tiered with other knockbacks.
3. Knocking away enemies during a retreat.
4. Kicking people off keep walls, bridges, cliffs. (And only if you are losing/are-going-to-lose)

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Tolfhic
Posts: 58

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#342 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:33 am

What is the consensus on renown spending for 2H Khaine build?

I currently have them spread between Futile Strikes, Parry, Dodge/Disrupt, and rest in Strength.
<As If> & <Last Night in Sweden>
Mains: Chariot SM (7X), Tolfhic WH (Badlands: 94)
Alts: Dokdisrespect DoK, Mspe WP, Bleeped Chosen
He's a WH fleeing from fights with this rotation; Flee, AP pot then stealth

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Fallenkezef
Posts: 1483

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#343 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:30 pm

Tolfhic wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:33 am What is the consensus on renown spending for 2H Khaine build?

I currently have them spread between Futile Strikes, Parry, Dodge/Disrupt, and rest in Strength.
I advocate max dodge/disrupt for any and all classes tbh
Alea iacta est

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#344 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:31 pm

Max parry
Futile
Crit
D+D

in that order, imo
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Wyzard
Posts: 42

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#345 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:39 pm

Ramasee wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:28 pm
Wyzard wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:34 pm
Ramasee wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:32 am Potent enchant does not scale at all. It has very little use in t4 pvp (fluff damage, 540 over 9s), but helps immensely with aoe tanking in pve.
With WW and using PoH/stance shift/gusting wind, you can effectively be in constant AOE mode guaranteeing refreshed dots on everyone. Not to mention the casting interrupts, cliff throws/wall throws/ram dismounts etc you get form gusting wind.

AOE SM is a big deal, imo, but yymv.
. Also you should NOT be using gusting wind on cooldown unless you like handing out immunities so that knockbacks
No one said anything about gw on cd. That’s a strawman tactic and unfortunately I now need to clarify my position because you have muddied the waters as to my intention. GW is included in the list because it does indeed add triggers of PE and BE.

There are plenty of situations where the frontline has immunities and gw won’t “give out free immunities” and other situations where gw on a backline will win the fight, and still other situations where there is a wall or corner and gw will help group enemies up for more aoe focus. There are other occasions where gw is not waranted.

Players with gw are perfectly capable of seeing who has what immunity with buffhead and can make their own decisions. And supposing an sm makes the executive decision to gw and “ give out free immunities”, they can make it. I say this knowing full well an army of bitter st punters and ccers will be ready to cry “newb” and rush to the forums to post about it. But there Are inumerable varying situations in rvr, part of its charm, where no ruleset can easily be attributed to whether the gw was necessary or not. Not every decision in a free will game environment with a AOE knockback mechanic will be a leftbrained theorycrafted event and no amount of forum posting will change that.

In my experience, Many battles have been won with gw providing critical positional confusion and time wasting to enemies who then need to take the time, usually snared, to get back into position to do anything, all while the order wb is lighting them up with puddles of fire. Similarly aoe stagger from other tanks can provide this advantage. In fact surprise attacker advantage and confusion among the defending ranks is the greatest deciding factor in rvr play which is anything but organized. Gw plays a role there whether you like it or not.

And to address your idea that most engagements are over before the 9 seconds of potent enchantments.... ridiculous. And like i said, it is a cummulative effect not a single kill all spell. You are also debuffing spirit dmg, doing direct. woH dmg, achieving perfect stance for other abilities, and potentially triggering bolstered enchanments/blessing of heaven. You would like to post dmg /sec numbers because you find it isn't enough? I disagree, some is better than nothing, and this AOE capability is a unique part of the SM kit along with their proc heals and bubbles. So SMs may find this approach interesting in light of that.
Archmage : Darktown Strutter
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BrightWizard : Wyzard Mode

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Ramasee
Posts: 457

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#346 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:14 pm

1. It would only be straw manning if I misrepresented your position by pulling only one sentence out of your argument and arguing solely on that instead of your entire post. I however addressed your entire post, agreed on some points and disputed other points.

2. I agree with most of the gusting winds uses you have posted here while agreeing with the one line of mine you decided to quote without its context ... or spoilered.

3. The numbers I posted were based off the 100-130k you stated. I did the math with the high value and an average scenario length (since we didn't have the screenshot) to pull down the AoE dps numbers. Since it is a damage only tactic, its min/man dps matters to whether or not it is worth the slot. And that 271 dps value was accounting for ALL your actions since it was based off the statboard number you provided.

4. Applying potent enchantments takes GCDs and a tactic slot. You stated
Wyzard wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:34 pm
Spoiler:
Ramasee wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:32 am Potent enchant does not scale at all. It has very little use in t4 pvp (fluff damage, 540 over 9s), but helps immensely with aoe tanking in pve.
I have to go ahead and disagree on this. T4 PVP in a warband is highly aoe focused and WoH spam + PE and Centuries of Training adds up with all of the other AOE going on to melt clumps of targets. It isn't like you're expecting to melt them solo but dmg is dmg and this is delivered aoe with the added bonus of proccing constant effects from your blade enchants.
Besides Challenging and guarding and WW, this is probably your next best addition to an AOE WB and won't take away from your main responsibilities at all.
Spoiler:
As a measure of how much dmg it is actually generating you can simulate it in a SC where i can regularly get 100-130k in dmg if I focus on AOE and I'm full toughness SnB to boot. (Discerning offense seems to increase numbers when I've tested it but usually can't spare the slot)

With WW and using PoH/stance shift/gusting wind, you can effectively be in constant AOE mode guaranteeing refreshed dots on everyone. Not to mention the casting interrupts, cliff throws/wall throws/ram dismounts etc you get form gusting wind.

AOE SM is a big deal, imo, but yymv.
and my argument was that Hold the Line was the next best addition to an AoE warband due to the poor AoE damage output of a SM compared to actual AoE dps classes.

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facundo7777
Posts: 402

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#347 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:28 am

there is a lot of builds and ideas here ;) can someone link basic 2h (solo/sc/pug play) tanky dps build :) in future i will try everything by myself but what is core for 2h sm ;)?


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facundo7777
Posts: 402

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#349 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:13 pm

is khaine viable with vaul instead of hoeth?

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Ugle
Posts: 589

Re: [Swordmaster] Builds, hints and tips.

Post#350 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:15 pm

Khaine has no synergy with either hoeth or vaul anymore and is only useful for loldps.
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