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[KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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sharpblader
Posts: 298

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#41 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:21 pm

Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm
zulnam wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:37 pm
forsa wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:34 am

BO would like to have a word with you.
BO can have all the words they want, no tank in the game comes close to the utility knight has, both in SnB and 2H.

And that's the issue. The class is not broken. This is a team game and knight, with either weapon, is a must have for any group.

The issue is it's boring. You have very few abilities, and when you take out situationals and the ones that hit like poo, you're basically down to 2 debuffs every 20 sec and MS spam.

So yes it does potato damage and is boring.
It also has 3 auras
And a group wide heal buff
And an aoe crit chance debuff
Along with an aoe wounds debuff
And an aoe defense debuff (i guess)

And that's supposed to be the "dps" knight, lol! You need a chosen AND a BG to counter all those buffs.

And you could get a channel attack that is worth a damn, it still won't change the underlying issue. The damage will still be low.

- no great weapon mastery tactic
- runefang, an offensice tactic (gives WS) is in utility tree
- 11-point tactic in offensive tree dispells detaunts (lol can u imagine?)
- sov sets are all over the place; offensive set doesn't give weapon skill; utility set does, what?
- Sunfury tactic broken (doesn't work) so can't go for dmg reflect build (last i checked, maybe it was fixed)

I don't have a horse in this race anymore; i stopped playing knight when they removed Mighty Soul (MIGHTY SSSSSOOOUUULLL). It is a utility hog and as long as it stays that way it won't get the attention it's dps spec needs. And as long as that stays that way, order will never have enough knights to be competitive; contrary to popular belief, people who play a SnB tank still want to have the option of going unga bunga 2H whenever they want.
Well Kotbs aint boring at all, it is not an issue if that what we seek to achieve by playing video games, wont you agree?

Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.

No gw weapon tactic? - no offensive tactics either except Biting blade to reduce parry (meh) or Focused offense to .. reduce armor?

Runefang - sucks, it really sucks, not refreshing by itself, boosting toughtness and weapons skill which are not fitting kotbs outside PvE in this combination.

Conquest - sucks harder since you dont want 11 points in it anyways and you wont receive any detaunts you cant overcome with 3x dueling anybody, dont forget auto and setup debuffs. so its only worth as a passive for switching targets frequently for the Efficient Swings.

Plus all attacks must be physical which is a greater nerf than any.. now Chosen.. way better tactics and build options for tanks with better and more dynamic utility.

So atm its like-
GW
Chosen > Kotbs by far.
SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.

Problem.
SnB Kotbs is the best tank in the game. The amount of easy utility and survivability they have is the envy of all SnB Chosens. Given this fact, tweaking Myrmidias Fury or any other 2h knight buff would be on lowest priority for the dev team. (Still waiting for vigilance to be reverted for GW).

Runefang is a shadow of what it was but is still strong. It stacks with rugged, helps with WS builds and boosts parry by 3-4%. Doesn't refresh itself but is almost always up if you have good parry which all GW knights should. Not recommended in any organized group play.

Unfortunately, the current meta for 2h knights is stuck in a tri spec with SC in the mid tree, FM in the right tree, OS and ST in the left tree and BD from core. Running anything else is going to get you uninvited because everyone wants you to run this build in groups because of how OP the utility is.

The best class in comparison to 2h knight is actually the 2h BG not the chosen. BGs have all the same skills except for healing buff, do more damage but a little harder to play because of their resource management mechanic.

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don775
Posts: 81

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#42 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:55 pm

sharpblader wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:21 pm
Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm
zulnam wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:37 pm

BO can have all the words they want, no tank in the game comes close to the utility knight has, both in SnB and 2H.

And that's the issue. The class is not broken. This is a team game and knight, with either weapon, is a must have for any group.

The issue is it's boring. You have very few abilities, and when you take out situationals and the ones that hit like poo, you're basically down to 2 debuffs every 20 sec and MS spam.

So yes it does potato damage and is boring.
It also has 3 auras
And a group wide heal buff
And an aoe crit chance debuff
Along with an aoe wounds debuff
And an aoe defense debuff (i guess)

And that's supposed to be the "dps" knight, lol! You need a chosen AND a BG to counter all those buffs.

And you could get a channel attack that is worth a damn, it still won't change the underlying issue. The damage will still be low.

- no great weapon mastery tactic
- runefang, an offensice tactic (gives WS) is in utility tree
- 11-point tactic in offensive tree dispells detaunts (lol can u imagine?)
- sov sets are all over the place; offensive set doesn't give weapon skill; utility set does, what?
- Sunfury tactic broken (doesn't work) so can't go for dmg reflect build (last i checked, maybe it was fixed)

I don't have a horse in this race anymore; i stopped playing knight when they removed Mighty Soul (MIGHTY SSSSSOOOUUULLL). It is a utility hog and as long as it stays that way it won't get the attention it's dps spec needs. And as long as that stays that way, order will never have enough knights to be competitive; contrary to popular belief, people who play a SnB tank still want to have the option of going unga bunga 2H whenever they want.
Well Kotbs aint boring at all, it is not an issue if that what we seek to achieve by playing video games, wont you agree?

Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.

No gw weapon tactic? - no offensive tactics either except Biting blade to reduce parry (meh) or Focused offense to .. reduce armor?

Runefang - sucks, it really sucks, not refreshing by itself, boosting toughtness and weapons skill which are not fitting kotbs outside PvE in this combination.

Conquest - sucks harder since you dont want 11 points in it anyways and you wont receive any detaunts you cant overcome with 3x dueling anybody, dont forget auto and setup debuffs. so its only worth as a passive for switching targets frequently for the Efficient Swings.

Plus all attacks must be physical which is a greater nerf than any.. now Chosen.. way better tactics and build options for tanks with better and more dynamic utility.

So atm its like-
GW
Chosen > Kotbs by far.
SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.

Problem.
SnB Kotbs is the best tank in the game. The amount of easy utility and survivability they have is the envy of all SnB Chosens. Given this fact, tweaking Myrmidias Fury or any other 2h knight buff would be on lowest priority for the dev team. (Still waiting for vigilance to be reverted for GW).

Runefang is a shadow of what it was but is still strong. It stacks with rugged, helps with WS builds and boosts parry by 3-4%. Doesn't refresh itself but is almost always up if you have good parry which all GW knights should. Not recommended in any organized group play.

Unfortunately, the current meta for 2h knights is stuck in a tri spec with SC in the mid tree, FM in the right tree, OS and ST in the left tree and BD from core. Running anything else is going to get you uninvited because everyone wants you to run this build in groups because of how OP the utility is.

The best class in comparison to 2h knight is actually the 2h BG not the chosen. BGs have all the same skills except for healing buff, do more damage but a little harder to play because of their resource management mechanic.
I agree and disagree since every career was made as clone-nemesis variation..

Spirit res for kotbs is met with elemental res as chosen - both can benefit or weaken against each other and others respectively and defend against some enemies specifically.

Chosen always been better than kotbs with gw, now the difference is just greater while most chosens prefer snb cause it is still a better choice over gw for them as well, kotbs just down the food chain.

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#43 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:22 am

don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:55 pm
sharpblader wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:21 pm
Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm

Well Kotbs aint boring at all, it is not an issue if that what we seek to achieve by playing video games, wont you agree?

Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.

No gw weapon tactic? - no offensive tactics either except Biting blade to reduce parry (meh) or Focused offense to .. reduce armor?

Runefang - sucks, it really sucks, not refreshing by itself, boosting toughtness and weapons skill which are not fitting kotbs outside PvE in this combination.

Conquest - sucks harder since you dont want 11 points in it anyways and you wont receive any detaunts you cant overcome with 3x dueling anybody, dont forget auto and setup debuffs. so its only worth as a passive for switching targets frequently for the Efficient Swings.

Plus all attacks must be physical which is a greater nerf than any.. now Chosen.. way better tactics and build options for tanks with better and more dynamic utility.

So atm its like-
GW
Chosen > Kotbs by far.
SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.

Problem.
SnB Kotbs is the best tank in the game. The amount of easy utility and survivability they have is the envy of all SnB Chosens. Given this fact, tweaking Myrmidias Fury or any other 2h knight buff would be on lowest priority for the dev team. (Still waiting for vigilance to be reverted for GW).

Runefang is a shadow of what it was but is still strong. It stacks with rugged, helps with WS builds and boosts parry by 3-4%. Doesn't refresh itself but is almost always up if you have good parry which all GW knights should. Not recommended in any organized group play.

Unfortunately, the current meta for 2h knights is stuck in a tri spec with SC in the mid tree, FM in the right tree, OS and ST in the left tree and BD from core. Running anything else is going to get you uninvited because everyone wants you to run this build in groups because of how OP the utility is.

The best class in comparison to 2h knight is actually the 2h BG not the chosen. BGs have all the same skills except for healing buff, do more damage but a little harder to play because of their resource management mechanic.
I agree and disagree since every career was made as clone-nemesis variation..

Spirit res for kotbs is met with elemental res as chosen - both can benefit or weaken against each other and others respectively and defend against some enemies specifically.

Chosen always been better than kotbs with gw, now the difference is just greater while most chosens prefer snb cause it is still a better choice over gw for them as well, kotbs just down the food chain.

What makes chosens much stronger is the synergy with other classes of destro. The buffs, debuffs, etc.. perfectly synergyses to their strength. On the contrary, Knight has like zero synergies, there is no elemental debuff exists on order, so its damage always remain mediocre compared to chosen. Myrmidia Fury is possibly the worst skill in the whole game, I don't know any other skill that's purpose and result is overwritten by the level 5 spammable skill of your class lol... I mean whoever uses it in their rotation or randomly just purposedly does less damage tham spamming Precision Strike in any build/any setup.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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zulnam
Posts: 760

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#44 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 am

don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.
No. Look over the career builder abilities. The classes are not mirrored to their faction nemesis-race counterpart.

Kotbs has auras yes, same as Chosen, of course.
It also has aoe defense debuff, same as BG.
Aoe Crit debuff, same as BG.
Aoe wounds debuff, same as BG.
main attack ability that ignores 25% of armor, same as BG.

don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.
That is straight out delusional. What are you basing this on? Raw numbers? Man no one cares if a shield boi can beat another shield boi. No one has the time to look at that fight.

- Chosen has 3 auras, same as Knight.
- Knight also has Dirty Tricks, 5% crit reduction on block. Chosen has similar ability but it happens on crit; it is not a meta build for a serious warband, no SnB chosen specs crit. You sacrifice too much survivability.
- Knight also has passive 15% heal buff party wide. Chosen needs to use an aura to counter this. A knight is never in a situation where they need to use "Now's Our Chance!" to counter anything.
- Lastly Knight has Vigilance. 50% dmg reduction. It's basically a detaunt on a tank. Chosen counterpart has 15% dmg reduction and increases armor (not stackable with pots of course, we're all gentlemen here).

That's not to say chosen is a weak tank. The high parry, auras and morale tactic keeps them competitive in warbands, but to call them better SnB tanks than Knight means you're not paying attention to group play. No one in a party cares that chosen shield tank is doing spirit damage.
SW, Kotbs, IB, Slayer, WP, WL, SM, Mara, SH, BG

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don775
Posts: 81

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#45 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:35 am

zulnam wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 am
don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.
No. Look over the career builder abilities. The classes are not mirrored to their faction nemesis-race counterpart.

Kotbs has auras yes, same as Chosen, of course.
It also has aoe defense debuff, same as BG.
Aoe Crit debuff, same as BG.
Aoe wounds debuff, same as BG.
main attack ability that ignores 25% of armor, same as BG.

don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.
That is straight out delusional. What are you basing this on? Raw numbers? Man no one cares if a shield boi can beat another shield boi. No one has the time to look at that fight.

- Chosen has 3 auras, same as Knight.
- Knight also has Dirty Tricks, 5% crit reduction on block. Chosen has similar ability but it happens on crit; it is not a meta build for a serious warband, no SnB chosen specs crit. You sacrifice too much survivability.
- Knight also has passive 15% heal buff party wide. Chosen needs to use an aura to counter this. A knight is never in a situation where they need to use "Now's Our Chance!" to counter anything.
- Lastly Knight has Vigilance. 50% dmg reduction. It's basically a detaunt on a tank. Chosen counterpart has 15% dmg reduction and increases armor (not stackable with pots of course, we're all gentlemen here).

That's not to say chosen is a weak tank. The high parry, auras and morale tactic keeps them competitive in warbands, but to call them better SnB tanks than Knight means you're not paying attention to group play. No one in a party cares that chosen shield tank is doing spirit damage.

Vigilance requires a tactic(or two, you cant get any viable alternatives), Dirty tricks also requires a tactic, the same as focused mending they all need to be unlocked and that is also on the expense of other abilities and all of that for being able to meagerly support your team or just focus on selfish commands. not to mention most were nerfed or doesnt work - kotbs cant have them all, Chosen does(except auras)

Trying to force a meta is what broke the careers in the first place since every career has unique advantages to make up for the difference and it doesnt come freely as it does for Chosen, careers were made to counter each other and that balance is way off thats why theres a meta.

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sharpblader
Posts: 298

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#46 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:28 am

Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:35 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 am
don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm Anyways Chosen is the only one to be compared for Kotbs and they are doing much better with GW, while BO does better with Shields than Kotbs cant beat them, so there is a conparison to be made to Chosen to the very least since we can match BO to SM for their parries but its fair to compare BO to IB and SM to BG.
No. Look over the career builder abilities. The classes are not mirrored to their faction nemesis-race counterpart.

Kotbs has auras yes, same as Chosen, of course.
It also has aoe defense debuff, same as BG.
Aoe Crit debuff, same as BG.
Aoe wounds debuff, same as BG.
main attack ability that ignores 25% of armor, same as BG.

don775 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:31 pm SnB
Chosen > Kotbs.
That is straight out delusional. What are you basing this on? Raw numbers? Man no one cares if a shield boi can beat another shield boi. No one has the time to look at that fight.

- Chosen has 3 auras, same as Knight.
- Knight also has Dirty Tricks, 5% crit reduction on block. Chosen has similar ability but it happens on crit; it is not a meta build for a serious warband, no SnB chosen specs crit. You sacrifice too much survivability.
- Knight also has passive 15% heal buff party wide. Chosen needs to use an aura to counter this. A knight is never in a situation where they need to use "Now's Our Chance!" to counter anything.
- Lastly Knight has Vigilance. 50% dmg reduction. It's basically a detaunt on a tank. Chosen counterpart has 15% dmg reduction and increases armor (not stackable with pots of course, we're all gentlemen here).

That's not to say chosen is a weak tank. The high parry, auras and morale tactic keeps them competitive in warbands, but to call them better SnB tanks than Knight means you're not paying attention to group play. No one in a party cares that chosen shield tank is doing spirit damage.

Vigilance requires a tactic(or two, you cant get any viable alternatives), Dirty tricks also requires a tactic, the same as focused mending they all need to be unlocked and that is also on the expense of other abilities and all of that for being able to meagerly support your team or just focus on selfish commands. not to mention most were nerfed or doesnt work - kotbs cant have them all, Chosen does(except auras)

Trying to force a meta is what broke the careers in the first place since every career has unique advantages to make up for the difference and it doesnt come freely as it does for Chosen, careers were made to counter each other and that balance is way off thats why theres a meta.
No class can have it all and no class is a 100% mirror to it's cross faction counterpart.

Careers were never made to counter each other. True balance is only to be found in WB fights which I believe currently is in the best state of this project.

1v1 balance doesn't exist. 6v6 ranked balance favours some classes over others but isn't as skewed as 1v1.

Tweaking a class specifically for one game mode might break them in another game mode. Things that do overperform in solo content do get the axe now and then but again main focus is on groups.

The correct statement to make would be that 2h chosen are better than 2h knights in dealing direct damage.

kmark101 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:22 am What makes chosens much stronger is the synergy with other classes of destro.

This is not entirely accurate. Chosen doesnt need synergy with other destro classes to beat knight in direct damage. Knight is the only class which bring elemental debuff on order which isn't a lot since only a few of their abilities do elemental damage. Only viable option to use MF is when you are starved for AP. Spamming precision strike is not too good for your AP pool.

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normanis
Posts: 1304
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Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#47 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:02 am

if u have 4 chosen in wb and noone of tham will spec anti heal aura. than its just pug. kobs antiheal aura works autgoing heal so u need to be near healers nonstop , to its start work .
chosen/kobs /bg has wounds debuff. best is from bg
previous crit tactic worked with 1h/2h kobs and with str aura now u need go 2h (great nerft)
what deal element damage? begind bw
mighty soul get removed
effiecient swings vs unstoppable fury (the point spended is like day and night)
offc kobs is tanky einugh in sovereign and like all ather clases in bis gear.
runefang needed nerf? yes it was 16lvl tactic what boosted 2 important stats str and ini. byt we got high in tree tougness and weaponskill (for 3-4% parry) what gear u need to have to go full 2h and take new runefang in complitly in ather tree. while chosen get ''runefang in same tree??? bah its all just nerfs for kobs . runefanf should boosted 1 stat on parry not 3 stats for example iniative.
i tried myrmidias fury and its fluff damage vs my choosen same abilitie.
"Iron Within, Iron Without!"

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don775
Posts: 81

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#48 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:52 pm

sharpblader wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:28 am
Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:35 am
zulnam wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:48 am

No. Look over the career builder abilities. The classes are not mirrored to their faction nemesis-race counterpart.

Kotbs has auras yes, same as Chosen, of course.
It also has aoe defense debuff, same as BG.
Aoe Crit debuff, same as BG.
Aoe wounds debuff, same as BG.
main attack ability that ignores 25% of armor, same as BG.




That is straight out delusional. What are you basing this on? Raw numbers? Man no one cares if a shield boi can beat another shield boi. No one has the time to look at that fight.

- Chosen has 3 auras, same as Knight.
- Knight also has Dirty Tricks, 5% crit reduction on block. Chosen has similar ability but it happens on crit; it is not a meta build for a serious warband, no SnB chosen specs crit. You sacrifice too much survivability.
- Knight also has passive 15% heal buff party wide. Chosen needs to use an aura to counter this. A knight is never in a situation where they need to use "Now's Our Chance!" to counter anything.
- Lastly Knight has Vigilance. 50% dmg reduction. It's basically a detaunt on a tank. Chosen counterpart has 15% dmg reduction and increases armor (not stackable with pots of course, we're all gentlemen here).

That's not to say chosen is a weak tank. The high parry, auras and morale tactic keeps them competitive in warbands, but to call them better SnB tanks than Knight means you're not paying attention to group play. No one in a party cares that chosen shield tank is doing spirit damage.

Vigilance requires a tactic(or two, you cant get any viable alternatives), Dirty tricks also requires a tactic, the same as focused mending they all need to be unlocked and that is also on the expense of other abilities and all of that for being able to meagerly support your team or just focus on selfish commands. not to mention most were nerfed or doesnt work - kotbs cant have them all, Chosen does(except auras)

Trying to force a meta is what broke the careers in the first place since every career has unique advantages to make up for the difference and it doesnt come freely as it does for Chosen, careers were made to counter each other and that balance is way off thats why theres a meta.
No class can have it all and no class is a 100% mirror to it's cross faction counterpart.

Careers were never made to counter each other. True balance is only to be found in WB fights which I believe currently is in the best state of this project.

1v1 balance doesn't exist. 6v6 ranked balance favours some classes over others but isn't as skewed as 1v1.

Tweaking a class specifically for one game mode might break them in another game mode. Things that do overperform in solo content do get the axe now and then but again main focus is on groups.

The correct statement to make would be that 2h chosen are better than 2h knights in dealing direct damage.

kmark101 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:22 am What makes chosens much stronger is the synergy with other classes of destro.

This is not entirely accurate. Chosen doesnt need synergy with other destro classes to beat knight in direct damage. Knight is the only class which bring elemental debuff on order which isn't a lot since only a few of their abilities do elemental damage. Only viable option to use MF is when you are starved for AP. Spamming precision strike is not too good for your AP pool.

You are making the most valid points to my opinion, but I wonder if you can explain the similarities each career has with their nemesis, IB-BO, SM-BG, Chosen-Kotbs (for the sake of the argument) also share countering defenses/buffs/debuffs.. I really do because I think its vital to balance all careers properly.

I think the game can be fair matching 12 vs 12 (since some abilities are limited to 9 people) regardless of how meta is (broken) because lets admit it, wbs are practically xp/rr orgies.

More over I want to understand who gives a crap about warbands or how could it ever reflect pros/cons accurately to begin with?

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sharpblader
Posts: 298

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#49 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:19 pm

Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:52 pm
sharpblader wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:28 am
Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:35 am

Vigilance requires a tactic(or two, you cant get any viable alternatives), Dirty tricks also requires a tactic, the same as focused mending they all need to be unlocked and that is also on the expense of other abilities and all of that for being able to meagerly support your team or just focus on selfish commands. not to mention most were nerfed or doesnt work - kotbs cant have them all, Chosen does(except auras)

Trying to force a meta is what broke the careers in the first place since every career has unique advantages to make up for the difference and it doesnt come freely as it does for Chosen, careers were made to counter each other and that balance is way off thats why theres a meta.
No class can have it all and no class is a 100% mirror to it's cross faction counterpart.

Careers were never made to counter each other. True balance is only to be found in WB fights which I believe currently is in the best state of this project.

1v1 balance doesn't exist. 6v6 ranked balance favours some classes over others but isn't as skewed as 1v1.

Tweaking a class specifically for one game mode might break them in another game mode. Things that do overperform in solo content do get the axe now and then but again main focus is on groups.

The correct statement to make would be that 2h chosen are better than 2h knights in dealing direct damage.

kmark101 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:22 am What makes chosens much stronger is the synergy with other classes of destro.

This is not entirely accurate. Chosen doesnt need synergy with other destro classes to beat knight in direct damage. Knight is the only class which bring elemental debuff on order which isn't a lot since only a few of their abilities do elemental damage. Only viable option to use MF is when you are starved for AP. Spamming precision strike is not too good for your AP pool.

You are making the most valid points to my opinion, but I wonder if you can explain the similarities each career has with their nemesis, IB-BO, SM-BG, Chosen-Kotbs (for the sake of the argument) also share countering defenses/buffs/debuffs.. I really do because I think its vital to balance all careers properly.

I think the game can be fair matching 12 vs 12 (since some abilities are limited to 9 people) regardless of how meta is (broken) because lets admit it, wbs are practically xp/rr orgies.

More over I want to understand who gives a crap about warbands or how could it ever reflect pros/cons accurately to begin with?

The intended endgame is warband play. You are talking about zergs.

Look there's not much correlation between class nemesis and class mechanics. Don't think too much about it because it's quite intermingled. For example, Chosens spirit damage attack and parry increase is mirrored by Swordmasters. Chosens dmg reduction ability is mirrored by Knights. Chosens damage on moving ability is mirrored by Ironbreakers. The careers are decently balanced (group play) the way they are but seems like you want 100% mirroring which as per the devs is not going to happen.

Now if you want to 1v1 other tanks, knights do a pretty good job. Unless there's a huge gear difference.

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don775
Posts: 81

Re: [KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

Post#50 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:10 pm

sharpblader wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:19 pm
Spoiler:
don775 wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:52 pm
sharpblader wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:28 am
Spoiler:
No class can have it all and no class is a 100% mirror to it's cross faction counterpart.

Careers were never made to counter each other. True balance is only to be found in WB fights which I believe currently is in the best state of this project.

1v1 balance doesn't exist. 6v6 ranked balance favours some classes over others but isn't as skewed as 1v1.

Tweaking a class specifically for one game mode might break them in another game mode. Things that do overperform in solo content do get the axe now and then but again main focus is on groups.

The correct statement to make would be that 2h chosen are better than 2h knights in dealing direct damage.





This is not entirely accurate. Chosen doesnt need synergy with other destro classes to beat knight in direct damage. Knight is the only class which bring elemental debuff on order which isn't a lot since only a few of their abilities do elemental damage. Only viable option to use MF is when you are starved for AP. Spamming precision strike is not too good for your AP pool.

You are making the most valid points to my opinion, but I wonder if you can explain the similarities each career has with their nemesis, IB-BO, SM-BG, Chosen-Kotbs (for the sake of the argument) also share countering defenses/buffs/debuffs.. I really do because I think its vital to balance all careers properly.

I think the game can be fair matching 12 vs 12 (since some abilities are limited to 9 people) regardless of how meta is (broken) because lets admit it, wbs are practically xp/rr orgies.

More over I want to understand who gives a crap about warbands or how could it ever reflect pros/cons accurately to begin with?

The intended endgame is warband play. You are talking about zergs.

Look there's not much correlation between class nemesis and class mechanics. Don't think too much about it because it's quite intermingled. For example, Chosens spirit damage attack and parry increase is mirrored by Swordmasters. Chosens dmg reduction ability is mirrored by Knights. Chosens damage on moving ability is mirrored by Ironbreakers. The careers are decently balanced (group play) the way they are but seems like you want 100% mirroring which as per the devs is not going to happen.

Now if you want to 1v1 other tanks, knights do a pretty good job. Unless there's a huge gear difference.
I doubt balancing broken meta could fix it. more over the nemesis design is also taken into RvR originally so its there you just insist on considering the warband as the core endgame meta which doesnt make sense either because that means everyone theoretically gets to enjoy all the possible buffs from all given careers, hence the 12 v 12 comparison, any focus one object breaks the equation for the rest which makes even more sense to balance careers against each other.

Most Chosen builds are far more viable (and functioning) than any Kotbs builds meta or not and that is also the root of the problem.

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