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[WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Knight of the Blazing Sun, Bright Wizard, Witch Hunter, Warrior Priest
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Greywolfamakir
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Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#51 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:33 pm

Since RoR is a private server, where they can do whatever they want (100% logic), if they don't really care or they don't like "assassins" classes like WH/WE, they won't make WH/WE good or useful. It's not something bad, its their game, their server, and they can do whatever they want. You pay nothing like player, its free.

So, if you feel useless like WH/WE, maybe you have to invest more time playing or maybe they are both useless, anyway, you can always play other classes.

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Arziak
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Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#52 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:10 pm

Greywolfamakir wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:33 pm Since RoR is a private server, where they can do whatever they want (100% logic), if they don't really care or they don't like "assassins" classes like WH/WE, they won't make WH/WE good or useful. It's not something bad, its their game, their server, and they can do whatever they want. You pay nothing like player, its free.

So, if you feel useless like WH/WE, maybe you have to invest more time playing or maybe they are both useless, anyway, you can always play other classes.
Just dumbest post i never read.
Server not only works because of the amazing and dedicated work dat gms and devs doing here every day.
Server works too because a lot of people out there like me, choose to play this amazing free game, instead of others free games( just come to my mind, fexample gw2).
Imagine if all of uss left the server as you said, do you think its going to be funny a rvr where only devs and gms plays?
We cant demand devs to turn the game in the direction we want, but ofc if something its wrong we can and should put suggestions for it, to improve the experience for all.
When you say if dont like leave, its not healty its a toxic actitud.

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Greywolfamakir
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Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#53 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Arziak wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:10 pm
Greywolfamakir wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:33 pm Since RoR is a private server, where they can do whatever they want (100% logic), if they don't really care or they don't like "assassins" classes like WH/WE, they won't make WH/WE good or useful. It's not something bad, its their game, their server, and they can do whatever they want. You pay nothing like player, its free.

So, if you feel useless like WH/WE, maybe you have to invest more time playing or maybe they are both useless, anyway, you can always play other classes.
Just dumbest post i never read.
Server not only works because of the amazing and dedicated work dat gms and devs doing here every day.
Server works too because a lot of people out there like me, choose to play this amazing free game, instead of others free games( just come to my mind, fexample gw2).
Imagine if all of uss left the server as you said, do you think its going to be funny a rvr where only devs and gms plays?
We cant demand devs to turn the game in the direction we want, but ofc if something its wrong we can and should put suggestions for it, to improve the experience for all.
When you say if dont like leave, its not healty its a toxic actitud.
You can suggest whatever you want of course you can, but at the end, if devs dont like WH/WE or just they think that WH/WE should not work in 24v24 situations, you can do nothing. WH/WH both are bad in AoE situations, its a fact, did you think that it will change? i don't think so.

People have been complaining about WH/WE for years, but nothing has changed (well, they "nerf" razor AoE tactic).

On live, WH/WE could kill healers 1v1 (good healers) if they had gear, now in RoR, you CAN'T kill healers 1v1.

WH/WE are in a really bad position on 24v24 or big scale, and it looks like Devs support that so, you can suggest whatever you want, years and years suggesting, but its their server, their game, their rules and their balance at the end.

Sulorie
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Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#54 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:38 pm

Greywolfamakir wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:28 pm On live, WH/WE could kill healers 1v1 (good healers) if they had gear, now in RoR, you CAN'T kill healers 1v1.
It wasn't possible on live either against all those who found detaunt button and specced for trivial blows. At early times after release they were OP but it got fixed quite fast.
Dying is no option.

velenne
Posts: 92

Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#55 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:09 pm

Yikes, let's bring this topic back to positive and helpful discussion. Some trolls came along and did the usual troll thing, just trying to derail an otherwise productive conversation.

Big thanks to Zede and Honshu!

Any ideas on how to bring more attention to this thread? Share it around?

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Greywolfamakir
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Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#56 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:26 pm

velenne wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:09 pm Yikes, let's bring this topic back to positive and helpful discussion.
Its not an easy task since Devs have clearly stated that they don't want WH/WE do good AoE and they become "good" for big scale contente. if people ruling the server want WE/WH being both useless for big scale content, you are ****.

I play WH anyway, im **** on city, but i really enjoy ganking people.

Huurl
Posts: 33

Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#57 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:25 pm

I played WE on live for years and nowadays I set asside a 75 RR WE to reroll a sorc.

In my opinion for WE/WH, Aoe is not a solution, nor a better armor. If you want both you should play marauder/choppa/slayer.
WE and WH are not supposed to be robust as long are they are lethal or ST threatening. WH have a slight advantage there thanks to their parrying ability.
WE and WH are not supposed to nuke all around, some other do that better. WE have a slight advantage there thanks to OYK.
Let's call it even.

WL and mSH have burst and mobility. Slayer and Choppa are melee aoe king. Marauder and mSW seems versatile...
WE and WH have an element of surprise through a short stealth and that's it.
The core, the main feature of WE and WH is ST pressure and nowadays this pressure is too low to be a threat. There was a tactic that gave 5% crit chance by Blood Lust/Accusation... this is painfully missing now and it took away the threat and the spirit of those classes : Kill or die as fast as possible.

My hope is the devs may reconsider their choice and give back a tool that allow WE and WH to be threats again. Keep it brittle, keep it single target but make them dangerous again. Otherwise it would be a waste among the awesome opportunities of game play that ROR is able to offer.
Last edited by Huurl on Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

velenne
Posts: 92

Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#58 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:40 pm

Huurl wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:25 pm Kill or die as fast as possible.
That's a great core tenet, and I couldn't agree more. I think making that central guiding vision for the class' balance is key. Right now, we do not generate enough damage to pressure and kill before being killed.

By anything. Literally every other class does this better than WH.

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ZEDE
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Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#59 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:35 am

( thx Velenne )

I can't understand the direction taken by the developers ...
the (wh / we) is more and more rejected, and if that continues to suppress it as much from the game. ((
as you say it becomes really complicated to have a clean kill in wild rvr, except on characters bad stuff / low level / without game play (and we have no pleasure in doing it ..).
a well oriented shamy will wander you for several minutes until he crosses a character of the same faction and there it is 2 against one ... not to mention the shamy dps! who kill you while you kite quietly!
it is representative of the current problem:
- a healer can choose to be a good healer or a good dps (see both for shamy / zealot).
-a tank can choose to be very resistant or be a good dps (we see both more and more often!)
-a multitarget dps can be a good solo target (no need for explanation ..)
-wh / we, we have the choice between solo target (and big rvr work and a lot of attention in pve) or 3 target and 1 single multitarget shot quite derisory in view of multi dps ... look for the error!.
so basically everyone has the choice except wh / we ...
Going through a simplification of the specs we could completely clarify the situation.
"give this choice, of course very clearly":
- if (wh / we) choose the mono spec = they can only do mono target = they are super powerful and have the tools to (at least) destroy an unguarded healer, "quickly". but no multitarget tools.
-if (wh / we) choose the multitarget spec = they are powerful in multi and no monotarget tools.
it seems simple to me, at least as much as the very clear choice of orientation of the other classes.

Vandoles
Posts: 249

Re: [WH] As a 55rr WH, I feel useless in RvR

Post#60 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:10 am

Haven't played here in years, but I've been reading around and since the staff doesn't seem to have changed that much - solo and small scale play was simply always looked down upon by the devs. It was at best tolerated. Back when I played at first, it was pretty clear that any class/specc designed for soloing or small scale would either be reworked to fit group play or left to rot as not really viable. Now, WHs and WE are a class basically designed ONLY for small scale or solo play. To rework them you'd lose the entire class identity. Therefore they're likely very far down the table to be fixed and the fix will simply turn them into another mdps - probably with some minor specialty.

Personally I loved WH solo play on live, I feel solo play has a huge, unappreciated niche in War with catching stragglers, thinning the herd, forcing WBs to move in a blob. But at the end of the day, it was one of those aspects very few people liked and certainly not this dev team (you can see how someone passionate enough about the game to develop it for free would probably be passionate about its more core aspects) and that won't change, so it is what it is.

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