Worst class.... WH

[jokerspsycho]

What was the point of bringing up sc performance? Just curious.

I asked it, because I see huge differences in sc results on similar geared players of the same class.
Unlike in rvr we get at least some form of data from sc, albeit without being there, it's often hard to interpret scoreboards.


When I then see some threads about class X is super bad and needs a buff, not you specifically, I ask myself for the data to back up that claim, especially when I, on my own play sessions, make different experiences.

When those players are constantly at bottom or mid ranks for dps in sc, I believe them, that they have problems but I would come to different conclusions.

I agree, but as I pointed out in another post, I feel like having proper talismans, rr points, pots, etc, is a big factor. Theres also player skill to factor in. If someone is near the top of the score board on a single target class/spec, they will likely be on the top of the scoreboard as any dps (same with being at the bottom), same with a healer having top heals. Like u said as well, hard to judge not being there. Was this persona perma guarded, how was the people he was facing geared, were they actually good players, etc.

Tanks are harder to gauge bc sure u should do damage, but good guard swapping, challenges, taunts, timed punts, cc on off targets, etc isnt calculated into the scoreboard. Would love to see some kinda damage prevented stat with guard, shouts, challenges and what not.

Really the best test would just be taking top players in each mdps category and running them through the ringer in premade v premade to see how each one stacks up against another. Say 6v6 bc all of the mdps can do well, then ask the premade they went up against how each comp felt. Guessing slayer/slayer and asw/wl would feel the scariest bc when I was on destro they always said that was the meta comp and the scariest one to fight. Maybe it has changed.

[damino2a]

Shitty armor.
Low hp and low thoughness. U literraly get :| by any random aoe. 2 INSTANT DOT 100feet make u mid life.
Descend dps when u can attack the back
Good cc BUT same immun for some CC. Why not.
Fufu, really, 2 sec cast, broke by anny DD (not dealay, just cancel), so u CAN'T cast this in mele.
Low mobility.
No aoe
No teamplay

So ?

Edit : oh and no blessed bullet on snap shot and AA (hello WE)

[sighy]

Edit : oh and no blessed bullet on snap shot and AA (hello WE)

WH doesn't have to deal with 2s ICD and can apply it on every single target hit by DG. Arguably better outside of strictly single target.

[sjemen]

the wording of "you may only use a single relic at a time" is kinda wack. maybe remove the shared CD on them and make it so you just can't pop them at the same time? would it be too much?

[jokerspsycho]

the wording of "you may only use a single relic at a time" is kinda wack. maybe remove the shared CD on them and make it so you just can't pop them at the same time? would it be too much?

I could see reducing the shared cd. Allowing vanish -> SoM would be kinda strong imo vs casters but having a 30s shared cd wouldn't be to strong I wouldn't think.

[Deifact]

the wording of "you may only use a single relic at a time" is kinda wack. maybe remove the shared CD on them and make it so you just can't pop them at the same time? would it be too much?

I thought this when I first saw it too. I'd like relics to have a passive effect, but you can use the relic for a short term stronger effect which triggers a cooldown and the passive effect disappears until the cooldown is over.

[wargrimnir]

the wording of "you may only use a single relic at a time" is kinda wack. maybe remove the shared CD on them and make it so you just can't pop them at the same time? would it be too much?

I thought this when I first saw it too. I'd like relics to have a passive effect, but you can use the relic for a short term stronger effect which triggers a cooldown and the passive effect disappears until the cooldown is over.

This is why I leave threads like this running, every once in a great while someone has an idea that might be interesting to implement.

[Twohandernoob]

Something like (and to summarise the good ideas):

SoD passive 20% increased armour pen, 50% on use with 60 sec cd before another relic can be applied.

SoM passive 20% inceased disrupt, 100% on use for 7 secs, with 60 sec cd before another relic can be applied.

Sanctified oil remains unchanged but does not share cd with other relics.

WH/We killing blows provide a 30 sec cant be ressed debuff.

[PieTreBlu]

Something like (and to summarise the good ideas):

SoD passive 20% increased armour pen, 50% on use with 60 sec cd before another relic can be applied.

SoM passive 20% inceased disrupt, 100% on use for 7 secs, with 60 sec cd before another relic can be applied.

Sanctified oil remains unchanged but does not share cd with other relics.

Those numbers are extremely over the top but numbers aside the "relics" are mirrored by WE "elixirs" and WE definitely don't need help outside of a wb/siege environment. WE/WH main problem are their inherent selfishness and lack of strong aoe options and buffs/utility/aoe is (mainly)what nets you a spot in a 24 man (IB/BG have a similar problem to some extent).

Also talking to WH in game the main reason WH feels less strong in general compared to WE is their reliance on burst and critical compared to WE ability to pressure through kisses procs and Witchbrew. I don't have enough experience with WH to have a personal opinion on that but if WHs are considered in need of a class buff they should either be given something to make them less reliant on big burst from criticals or something to make them crit more easily.

Anyway IMO the focus should be on giving back aoe damage to WE/WH (to at least reach the level they had before their bugged aoe tactic was fixed).
Sweeping Razor/Broad Severing should be buffed and if a single tactic for a competitive aoe build for WH/WE is deemed too low of an investment, they could turn one of the tactics of the Confession/Carnage mastery lines into an aoe one and divide the "power budget" over two tactics. Buffing the AOE damage on Dragon Gun/On Your Knees is also a possibility and should be less problematic than buffing the morale drain effect on those abilities.

[Twohandernoob]

Ok WH only then