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[IB] Masochistic class?

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ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#41 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:53 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:08 pm Oathfriend anyone getting hit - insta grudges.

Rising anger if you roam solo.
Long reach in warband / parties.

Manage rotations right and you'll never go below 85grudges in a fight.
Even with that tactic you still build half as quickly as a BG, do you even have both classes??? The tactic even has an internal cool down of 1sec, BG has all of that without a tactic and a channel that build 5 every half second (15 if it crits). Basically you guys just think BG should be allowed to have the best of both worlds and IB has to tough it out? Wack.

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#42 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:59 pm

ashton007 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:53 pm
NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:08 pm Oathfriend anyone getting hit - insta grudges.

Rising anger if you roam solo.
Long reach in warband / parties.

Manage rotations right and you'll never go below 85grudges in a fight.
Even with that tactic you still build half as quickly as a BG, do you even have both classes??? The tactic even has an internal cool down of 1sec, BG has all of that without a tactic and a channel that build 5 every half second (15 if it crits). Basically you guys just think BG should be allowed to have the best of both worlds and IB has to tough it out? Wack.

What a surprise, yes, I have both IB and BG. And let me be frank: asking for those two classes to be mirrored 1:1 sounds like voices demanding 1:1 choppa/slayer mirrors. IBs are more resilient and their primary grudge build up is getting hit. BGs hit harder but must work more to turtle up and the more they hate the faster they hit. It's all in line with the lore.
Last edited by NSKaneda on Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#43 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:01 pm

Not only does BG have almost all of the same buffs that an IB has but then you go counting all of its debuffs on top, it ends up offering WAYmore. Wounds/ parry, block, toughness, crit. The only thing IB can debuff is armor and it is still worse at that than the BG, BG can reach the armor debuff twice to three times as quickly (needs 100 hate/grudge for max armor debuff) which is still worse than Maras/WL. I shouldn’t have to rely on having other players to always make my own class mechanic work, you see? And the tactic builds too slow with internal cool down, it should be better than BG’s to be taking up a tactic slot...

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#44 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:05 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:59 pm
ashton007 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:53 pm
NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 3:08 pm Oathfriend anyone getting hit - insta grudges.

Rising anger if you roam solo.
Long reach in warband / parties.

Manage rotations right and you'll never go below 85grudges in a fight.
Even with that tactic you still build half as quickly as a BG, do you even have both classes??? The tactic even has an internal cool down of 1sec, BG has all of that without a tactic and a channel that build 5 every half second (15 if it crits). Basically you guys just think BG should be allowed to have the best of both worlds and IB has to tough it out? Wack.

What a surprise, yes, I have both IB and BG. And let me be frank: asking for those two classes to be mirrored 1:1 sounds like voices demanding 1:1 choppa/slayer mirrors. IBs are more resilient and their primary grudge build up is getting hit. BGs hit harder but must work more to turtle up and the more they hate the faster they hit. It's all in line with the lore.
I don’t think they should be mirrored but I do think IB should be a little better on building grudge, BG builds grudges for getting hit too you know....

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#45 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:06 pm

ashton007 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:01 pm Not only does BG have almost all of the same buffs that an IB has but then you go counting all of its debuffs on top, it ends up offering WAYmore. Wounds/ parry, block, toughness, crit. The only thing IB can debuff is armor and it is still worse at that than the BG, BG can reach the armor debuff twice to three times as quickly (needs 100 hate/grudge for max armor debuff) which is still worse than Maras/WL. I shouldn’t have to rely on having other players to always make my own class mechanic work, you see? And the tactic builds too slow with internal cool down, it should be better than BG’s to be taking up a tactic slot...

Think about class synergies and realm-wide buffs and then go back to the question WHY order is more defensive and destro offensive by design.


Edit: don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop rising anger for solo roam and turtle up even more or use that 4th tactic for crit or anything else. But I also realise that it'd make IBs god-mode tanks.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#46 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:23 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:06 pm
ashton007 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:01 pm Not only does BG have almost all of the same buffs that an IB has but then you go counting all of its debuffs on top, it ends up offering WAYmore. Wounds/ parry, block, toughness, crit. The only thing IB can debuff is armor and it is still worse at that than the BG, BG can reach the armor debuff twice to three times as quickly (needs 100 hate/grudge for max armor debuff) which is still worse than Maras/WL. I shouldn’t have to rely on having other players to always make my own class mechanic work, you see? And the tactic builds too slow with internal cool down, it should be better than BG’s to be taking up a tactic slot...

Think about class synergies and realm-wide buffs and then go back to the question WHY order is more defensive and destro offensive by design.


Edit: don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop rising anger for solo roam and turtle up even more or use that 4th tactic for crit or anything else. But I also realise that it'd make IBs god-mode tanks.
You don’t really think one extra tactic slot you only use in solo roam will really make them “god tanks” do you? You seem smarter than that... but by that logic the BG is a god mode tank because he doesn’t use the pointless tactic? LOL

ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#47 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:27 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:06 pm
ashton007 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:01 pm Not only does BG have almost all of the same buffs that an IB has but then you go counting all of its debuffs on top, it ends up offering WAYmore. Wounds/ parry, block, toughness, crit. The only thing IB can debuff is armor and it is still worse at that than the BG, BG can reach the armor debuff twice to three times as quickly (needs 100 hate/grudge for max armor debuff) which is still worse than Maras/WL. I shouldn’t have to rely on having other players to always make my own class mechanic work, you see? And the tactic builds too slow with internal cool down, it should be better than BG’s to be taking up a tactic slot...

Think about class synergies and realm-wide buffs and then go back to the question WHY order is more defensive and destro offensive by design.


Edit: don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop rising anger for solo roam and turtle up even more or use that 4th tactic for crit or anything else. But I also realise that it'd make IBs god-mode tanks.
I didn’t even ask for more offense?! I just think the IB should be more self reliant on his own class mechanic and the BG is the perfect example, BG doesn’t need another player taking damage to use his class Design (but of course it benefits him the same because he gets grudge on being hit too) why should BG have it all? They don’t even have to spec to get their absorbs (that absorbs ALL damage not just magic)

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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#48 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:30 pm

ashton007 wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:23 pm
NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:06 pm Think about class synergies and realm-wide buffs and then go back to the question WHY order is more defensive and destro offensive by design.


Edit: don't get me wrong, I'd love to drop rising anger for solo roam and turtle up even more or use that 4th tactic for crit or anything else. But I also realise that it'd make IBs god-mode tanks.
You don’t really think one extra tactic slot you only use in solo roam will really make them “god tanks” do you? You seem smarter than that... but by that logic the BG is a god mode tank because he doesn’t use the pointless tactic? LOL

Go back to what I've written: IBs are more resilient. BGs have thinner skin but better offence.
We're discussing IBs here where you have to equip grudge generation tactic to be EVEN MORE tanky. Lol indeed.



But I forget that the point of these threads is to complain about greener grass.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#49 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:44 pm

NSKaneda wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:30 pm Go back to what I've written: IBs are more resilient. BGs have thinner skin but better offence.
We're discussing IBs here where you have to equip grudge generation tactic to be EVEN MORE tanky. Lol indeed.

What do you mean "more resilient" by the way? BG is the one who can selfbuff their toughness to 1k+ any random time, buff their parry 30%, buff their block 10% with just standing there, on top of their normal equipment and tactics... and armor buff on top of potion until recently... kinda ridiculus. So how is IB more resilient than that?

What about the offense, they get the knight's crit debuff skill (without spending a tactic slot!), they have armor debuff AND armor penetration skill (again mix of the knight's basic attack's 25% armor penetration AND the IB's armor debuff... again best of BOTH order classes skill without ANY downside)... self crit +15% (not 10% as the IB, but 15%) whenever the BG spends hate on an attack (so every 10s the worst as they use Crimson Death), etc.. and so on and so on... it's night and day, there are no other supposed "mirrors" that have such a massive difference in ancient vs modern toolset in the game.
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NSKaneda
Posts: 968

Re: [IB] Masochistic class?

Post#50 » Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:08 pm

You'd think that with 5 years of live development even Mythic would eventually notice that something's not right but...

BGs generate more hate but they spend more hate too.

IBs generate less grudges but have more grudge-generating skills and spend their mechanic points on less skills overall. This + racial tactics make them more resilient (and then we have racial and class synergies that either don't require doubling up on armour debuff or by-pass armour all together).

Destro have debuff game going on. Order has strong buffs. By design - after all realm of order is defending against destruction attack in desperate last stand...
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM<|[]|>Ginnar IB, Vidarr HMR, Runatyr RP ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

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