[IB]Ideas on IB buffs to try and make them more comparable to other tanks.

[TreefAM]

Hammerhead aren't you using the bloodlord 1h wep as a snb IB, is that tied to your survivability too?
If not my mistake, lots of IB's have similar names )

[hammerhead]

I still can't get your point. if you think i'm wrong, try explain me what's wrong. I can't see the thread tieing all your "arguments" (although you didn't really bring any, just some opinion)

I have already answered here and and before that the only thing unique to IB is the parry/crit buff and that's it. The rest of what you have listed is in one form or another in other tank carrier.
- The crit debuff is same is BG, with tactics there is SM (imagine, there is even a higher value there).
- Willpowerbuff? for whom for the heal? Do you know how much 160 wp gives on average? 100 with a trifle HP. Is it strong for you to decide if on average my RP ST heal is from 1800 to 2800 (even hier if procs)
- Heal debuff does not work in rvr and badly at 24 by 24 it is specific for 6x6, roam or soloing scenes. Cross heal ? have you heard?
- Double Armor Debuff? Isn't it like that in BG? Moreover, out of the box there is also 25% armor ignoring and a touch debuff. How much armor does BO debuff from the first position without investing a single point in first tree? Does the tooltip differ greatly in 200 points?
- Avalanche? good luck to run to the shaman to get a slowdown (or knockdown / knockback from others) and again puffing to catch up with swallowing dots. Of course work better with shild, but IB chasing DPS with a shield in what situation can I imagine ... Many Chosen take similar tactics?
- Punt is only useful at 6 by 6 and is not needed every 10 seconds. Spam him in rvr? Well, if only for aesthetic pleasure.
- Bubble? he is not unique, he eats twice as much class resource as the analogous bubble from BG, works only for magic.
- Armor buff does not stuck (as it should be, unlike BG)
- tugh buff has a meager effect. As ussual (almost always see), Kobs have an tough/resist/heal aura (and not AP as someone wrote recently).
- Corporel buff is needed only to start 50% AA. Destro main magic damage hiter is spiritual.

So your arguments are the same private opinion. Once again, the point that you have been looking for for so long - IB is good in a small scale where you can control two DPS, in everything else:
he is not the best buffer
he is not the best single target dmg from other 5 tanks (which is generally strange for someone who does not have AoE)
outside of the SNB build, it has mediocre defense at the level of deff speced DPS
stacks poorly at 24 to 24

These are a lot of words for sure, but you adress none of the question you brought out yourself. I'll refresh your memory:

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough.

How can WE/Mara/SW/mSH have the same level of protection of IB? I mean, really. How? What skill/spec/gear do they use?

Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield

How is IB's survivability tied to wearing a shield?

Also, what I said is:

IB's class mechanic give one of the highest armor/crit debuff, the highest wp buff, some really nice damage (grudge-scaling damage abilities) and one of the best punt in the game (midium range, 10s CD even with shield, no need of supplementar tactic).

and these^ aren't opinions, but facts. You can see the difference because facts can be proven, just log and see for yourself

I would really like to know the name of WE/Mara who will lose on equal terms in 1 on 1 to IB. Are there any brave ones? And I hear the cry about the survibilities of SW at 6 by 6 even when I turn off the computer at night.

So that you know for the future, facts without context do not mean anything and your facts are just a trick at the level of cheap trolling like there is X Y Z so everything is fine.

[Ysaran]

I have already answered here and and before that the only thing unique to IB is the parry/crit buff and that's it. The rest of what you have listed is in one form or another in other tank carrier.
- The crit debuff is same is BG, with tactics there is SM (imagine, there is even a higher value there).
- Willpowerbuff? for whom for the heal? Do you know how much 160 wp gives on average? 100 with a trifle HP. Is it strong for you to decide if on average my RP ST heal is from 1800 to 2800 (even hier if procs)
- Heal debuff does not work in rvr and badly at 24 by 24 it is specific for 6x6, roam or soloing scenes. Cross heal ? have you heard?
- Double Armor Debuff? Isn't it like that in BG? Moreover, out of the box there is also 25% armor ignoring and a touch debuff. How much armor does BO debuff from the first position without investing a single point in first tree? Does the tooltip differ greatly in 200 points?
- Avalanche? good luck to run to the shaman to get a slowdown (or knockdown / knockback from others) and again puffing to catch up with swallowing dots. Of course work better with shild, but IB chasing DPS with a shield in what situation can I imagine ... Many Chosen take similar tactics?
- Punt is only useful at 6 by 6 and is not needed every 10 seconds. Spam him in rvr? Well, if only for aesthetic pleasure.
- Bubble? he is not unique, he eats twice as much class resource as the analogous bubble from BG, works only for magic.
- Armor buff does not stuck (as it should be, unlike BG)
- tugh buff has a meager effect. As ussual (almost always see), Kobs have an tough/resist/heal aura (and not AP as someone wrote recently).
- Corporel buff is needed only to start 50% AA. Destro main magic damage hiter is spiritual.

So your arguments are the same private opinion. Once again, the point that you have been looking for for so long - IB is good in a small scale where you can control two DPS, in everything else:
he is not the best buffer
he is not the best single target dmg from other 5 tanks (which is generally strange for someone who does not have AoE)
outside of the SNB build, it has mediocre defense at the level of deff speced DPS
stacks poorly at 24 to 24

These are a lot of words for sure, but you adress none of the question you brought out yourself. I'll refresh your memory:

I don't even know how to convey this, probably in no way, but the fact is that WE (I will even keep silent about def spec) and Mara (SW, mSH and so on) have the same level of protection as 2H IB, by having their modest <300 tough.

How can WE/Mara/SW/mSH have the same level of protection of IB? I mean, really. How? What skill/spec/gear do they use?

Because all IB survivability is tied to the shield

How is IB's survivability tied to wearing a shield?

Also, what I said is:

IB's class mechanic give one of the highest armor/crit debuff, the highest wp buff, some really nice damage (grudge-scaling damage abilities) and one of the best punt in the game (midium range, 10s CD even with shield, no need of supplementar tactic).

and these^ aren't opinions, but facts. You can see the difference because facts can be proven, just log and see for yourself

I would really like to know the name of WE/Mara who will lose on equal terms in 1 on 1 to IB. Are there any brave ones? And I hear the cry about the survibilities of SW at 6 by 6 even when I turn off the computer at night.

So that you know for the future, facts without context do not mean anything and your facts are just a trick at the level of cheap trolling like there is X Y Z so everything is fine.

Ah, so you heard of "things" and that's what support your opinion. ok. i'll call it, no point beating a dead horse

[hammerhead]

Hammerhead aren't you using the bloodlord 1h wep as a snb IB, is that tied to your survivability too?
If not my mistake, lots of IB's have similar names )

Of course not. I have problems in general with PVE, a small multilingual guild and I go when someone looks into the roster and sees my name online.

[Earthcake]

IB's class mechanic give one of the highest armor/crit debuff, the highest wp buff, some really nice damage (grudge-scaling damage abilities) and one of the best punt in the game (midium range, 10s CD even with shield, no need of supplementar tactic). IB without class mechanic would be lame, imho.

I won't comment on everything cause i don't want to start an endless argument, but i just cannot restrain myself about the punt comment.
It is, no doubt about this, the worst st punt in the game. The goal of a punt is to punt somebody AWAY so he's not there for a certain duration. The longer he is in the air and the farther he lands are both factors increasing that duration, so both are beneficial (and if it weren t, why would chosen/knights slot a super punt tactic ??!).

IB punt got the least elevation (bad) and the least lenght (bad). To add insult to injury, it also costs grudges, lowering your damage at the precise moment you want it (to burst the now out of guard range enemy) and forbidding you to use at the start of the fight.

Better have a 20sec CD punt that allows you to kill someone, that a 10sec one that doesn t.
Ask any IB main if they wouldn t trade punts with chosen or BG...

[hammerhead]

Ah, so you heard of "things" and that's what support your opinion. ok. i'll call it, no point beating a dead horse

I just don't want to feed you anymore. You deliberately put me in the position of making excuses in an attempt to undermine my reputation, at the same time, judging by the signature itself, nothing special stands out. It's interesting that, that I even have a BG higher by one level that I have not played for over a year.

[Ysaran]

Ok, as you, I don't want an endless discussion. thus i take the freedom to quote only the parts i thought to comment.

It is, no doubt about this, the worst st punt in the game.

i like that i don't have to slot a tactic or wield a 2h weap to have a decent punt, guess it's just matter of taste

IB punt got the least elevation (bad) and the least lenght (bad).

well, excluding BO/SW that don't have a real ST punt, then Kotbs/chosen's punt (without tactic) has the same lenght/elevation of IB and 20s CD. also BG's punt is even worst if you aren't at 100 hate and you aren't using a 2h weap, because it has equal/lower lenght/elevation and has 20s CD.
again, i think is a matter of taste. i believe tactic slot are highly valuable and i would really hate to have to slot a tactic to have a decent punt, considering that punt is one of the archtype defining characteristic of tanks

[TreefAM]

well, excluding BO/SW that don't have a real ST punt, then Kotbs/chosen's punt (without tactic) has the same lenght/elevation of IB and 20s CD. also BG's punt is even worst if you aren't at 100 hate and you aren't using a 2h weap, because it has equal/lower lenght/elevation and has 20s CD.
again, i think is a matter of taste. i believe tactic slot are highly valuable and i would really hate to have to slot a tactic to have a decent punt, considering that punt is one of the archtype defining characteristic of tanks
[/quote]

The IB punt is way better than Kotbs/chosen without tactic, what are you talking about. Have you seen the chosen/knight punts without the tactics?

[Earthcake]

But you DO slot the tactic...

Your answer is like "have you seen chosen block without shield ?". Well yeah it 's zero obviously...

[Ysaran]

But you DO slot the tactic...

Your answer is like "have you seen chosen block without shield ?". Well yeah it 's zero obviously...

That's my point. Chosen HAVE to slot the tactic, and so it's like they have only 3 tactic slot, while IB punt is nice by default, so you have 4 tactic slot. Although there a lot of bad chosens that don't use the tactic