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IB Question

Ironbreaker, Engineer, Slayer, Runepriest
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abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

Re: IB Question

Post#11 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:22 pm

Wow! Must be end gear?
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

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kmark101
Posts: 482

Re: IB Question

Post#12 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:40 pm

The problem you still hit pretty weak due to armor creep, even with those stats. Main problem is our armor debuff still a flat number (inherited from the distant past) and single target only, so most often you can't debuff a well geared target below the armor cap anymore, so you go against 75% armor mitigation by default. Compare that to magic damage, where the cap is around 40%. (Plus add various gear that reduces incoming armor penetration.) Recent changes to toughness did not help, especially your quick ticking dot's, like Heavy Blow's dot part does extremely low damage compared to others (this might be a bug thou, since the mitigation is completely off on such dots).

The only real good solution for the whole game/IB/any physical class/balance would be the complete removal of armor potions (as they were not part of the game at the beginning, were just added later anyway), so physical damage classes could have a more balanced offense. Currently magical dps tanks, like chosens are eating you alive.

Also, before Guard changes/fixes you could ditch Dodge/Disrupt as 2h and just get some more offensive stats, Parry would work anyway. This is not the case anymore, so you gotta spend points to max Dodge/Disrupt, otherwise you gonna melt. This is another huge disadvantage compared to magical dps classes, who typically just have to focus on a single offensive stat (like chosen need to focus only on STR), while you have to focus on both WS and STR. Things are not great for the IB class atm, despite the recent changes.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

DirkDaring
Posts: 425

Re: IB Question

Post#13 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:23 pm

GONDOR wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:51 am
abezverkhiy wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
We have 9 Talisman slots, 8+1, you forgot weapons.

I don't agree with your view that your defensive stats will stuck; on my IB atm I have unbuffed (not self buffed or with potions);

640 str
615 ws
274 ini
602 toughness
902 wounds

4.8k armour
500 for resists (probably the only hole)
48% Parry
28% Dodge
26% Dist

This doesn't include offensive set buffs like melee power or crit.
[/quote]

What armor set up are you using with those stats .

User avatar
Ysaran
Posts: 1220

Re: IB Question

Post#14 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:32 pm

DirkDaring wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:23 pm
GONDOR wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:51 am
abezverkhiy wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
We have 9 Talisman slots, 8+1, you forgot weapons.

I don't agree with your view that your defensive stats will stuck; on my IB atm I have unbuffed (not self buffed or with potions);

640 str
615 ws
274 ini
602 toughness
902 wounds

4.8k armour
500 for resists (probably the only hole)
48% Parry
28% Dodge
26% Dist

This doesn't include offensive set buffs like melee power or crit.
What armor set up are you using with those stats .
[/quote]
I reach similar stat using a mix of Warlord and Invader
Zputadenti

abezverkhiy
Posts: 551

Re: IB Question

Post#15 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:26 am

DirkDaring wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:23 pm
Spoiler:
GONDOR wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:51 am
abezverkhiy wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
We have 9 Talisman slots, 8+1, you forgot weapons.

I don't agree with your view that your defensive stats will stuck; on my IB atm I have unbuffed (not self buffed or with potions);

640 str
615 ws
274 ini
602 toughness
902 wounds

4.8k armour
500 for resists (probably the only hole)
48% Parry
28% Dodge
26% Dist

This doesn't include offensive set buffs like melee power or crit.
[/spoiler]
What armor set up are you using with those stats .
[/quote]

On IB I am wearing Conq set atm. A bit too low but maybe I will play with stats a bit.
KingSchultz WH, Valknutt WP, Glendhu ENG, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL

My WH guide: viewtopic.php?t=46354

User avatar
hammerhead
Posts: 308

Re: IB Question

Post#16 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Just for comparison. 7 def sov + inv juv, fort weapon, three genesis. All but one are talismans for wound. One in toughness. I am experimenting with rr and then I drop point from the disrupt to toughness. Tactics on stats are reset to, add AI or Rugged to taste (I prefer toughness). As you can see, set bonuses do a good piece of work.
Spoiler:
Strength 259 [(147 + 112) x 1]
Willpower 172 [(172 + 0) x 1]
Toughness 788 [(341 + 447) x 1]
Wounds 1063 [(606 + 470) x 1]
Initiative 247 [(123 + 124) x 1]
WeaponSkill 239 [(196 + 43) x 1]
BallisticSkill 98 [(98 + 0) x 1]
Intelligence 74 [(74 + 0) x 1]
SpiritResistance 463 [(0 + 463) x 1]
ElementalResistance 461 [(0 + 461) x 1]
CorporealResistance 462 [(0 + 462) x 1]
IncomingDamagePercent x0.95
Armor 4260 [(0 + 4260) x 1]
Block 39 [(10 + 29) x 1]
Parry 18 [(18 + 0) x 1]
Evade 5 [(3 + 2) x 1]
Disrupt 5 [(3 + 2) x 1]
ActionPointRegen 4 [(0 + 4) x 1]
MoraleRegen 4 [(0 + 4) x 1]
HealthRegen 10 [(0 + 10) x 1]
ArmorPenetrationReduction 1 [(0 + 1) x 1]
CriticalHitRateReduction 17 [(3 + 14) x 1]
Mastery2Bonus 2 [(0 + 2) x 1]
Item Stat Total: 1196
Speed: 100
Stats Speed: 100
Velocity mods:
Later I can show more for SM and IB offensive set.
(\|)o0(|/)

DirkDaring
Posts: 425

Re: IB Question

Post#17 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:36 am

abezverkhiy wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:26 am
DirkDaring wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:23 pm
Spoiler:
GONDOR wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:51 am
abezverkhiy wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am

Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
We have 9 Talisman slots, 8+1, you forgot weapons.

I don't agree with your view that your defensive stats will stuck; on my IB atm I have unbuffed (not self buffed or with potions);

640 str
615 ws
274 ini
602 toughness
902 wounds

4.8k armour
500 for resists (probably the only hole)
48% Parry
28% Dodge
26% Dist

This doesn't include offensive set buffs like melee power or crit.
[/spoiler]
What armor set up are you using with those stats .
On IB I am wearing Conq set atm. A bit too low but maybe I will play with stats a bit.
[/quote]

Yea i was wondering what Gondor was running to hit those numbers, i rarely play my IB hes been 61 for a years now

Toobad
Posts: 15

Re: IB Question

Post#18 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:42 pm

GONDOR wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:51 am
abezverkhiy wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:20 am
Rekoom wrote: Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:40 am What would you say are good stat targets to aim for on 2h IB out of curiosity? 600 WS seems to be a very high amount, what would your strength and defensive stats look like in comparison?
Good question! We have 7 slots for talis - this gives 140 WS (which would otherwise give you same amount of wounds, tou, str - whichever you go for). You can buy another 120 with 34 renown points (getting full Reflexes and Deft Defender cost 40 points). So you have 260 WS and need another 340 from set bonuses and gear. But you will be going for offensive sets only.

So while STR will be sort of OK, your defensive stats will suck big time, pardon my French.
We have 9 Talisman slots, 8+1, you forgot weapons.

I don't agree with your view that your defensive stats will stuck; on my IB atm I have unbuffed (not self buffed or with potions);

640 str
615 ws
274 ini
602 toughness
902 wounds

4.8k armour
500 for resists (probably the only hole)
48% Parry
28% Dodge
26% Dist

This doesn't include offensive set buffs like melee power or crit.
[/quote]
What gear are you using to get to this point? Can you effectively go 2H at lower levels (as leveling) as well as say lvl 40 and RR40+?

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Rapzel
Posts: 390

Re: IB Question

Post#19 » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:07 am

Toobad wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:42 pm What gear are you using to get to this point? Can you effectively go 2H at lower levels (as leveling) as well as say lvl 40 and RR40+?
Yes, probably the best 2h tank in tier 2 for Order. IB is a grower, once you start getting stats it starts getting really good with a 2h.
it should be noted though that a 2h tank is neutered in ORvR, but that applies to all of them atm.

The difference between grudge and hatred is obviously how it's gained, big difference BG also getting it while hitting stuff with out a tactic.
Instead IB gets stronger buffs and abilities that scale better. People will start arguing here with me, about monstrous rending being spammable.
monstrous rending costs 30 hatred while Rune-Etched Axe costs 30 AP has 10 sec but with full grudge ignores 100% armor. Pretty much all IB abilties
in the Path of Vengeance has some sort of DoT component and IB only uses Grudge for their buffs that are not tied to a melee attack and punt.
Is IB as good as BG in 6vs6? No.
Is it still good? Yea.
Is IB better than BG in WB play? Yea.
Is IB the slowest scaling tank in the game and people get bored because of this? Yea.

Toobad
Posts: 15

Re: IB Question

Post#20 » Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:47 am

Rapzel wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 1:07 am
Toobad wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:42 pm What gear are you using to get to this point? Can you effectively go 2H at lower levels (as leveling) as well as say lvl 40 and RR40+?
Yes, probably the best 2h tank in tier 2 for Order. IB is a grower, once you start getting stats it starts getting really good with a 2h.
it should be noted though that a 2h tank is neutered in ORvR, but that applies to all of them atm.

The difference between grudge and hatred is obviously how it's gained, big difference BG also getting it while hitting stuff with out a tactic.
Instead IB gets stronger buffs and abilities that scale better. People will start arguing here with me, about monstrous rending being spammable.
monstrous rending costs 30 hatred while Rune-Etched Axe costs 30 AP has 10 sec but with full grudge ignores 100% armor. Pretty much all IB abilties
in the Path of Vengeance has some sort of DoT component and IB only uses Grudge for their buffs that are not tied to a melee attack and punt.
Is IB as good as BG in 6vs6? No.
Is it still good? Yea.
Is IB better than BG in WB play? Yea.
Is IB the slowest scaling tank in the game and people get bored because of this? Yea.
Great, thanks for the information. Still a lowbie at this point, but will be fun to level him up.

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