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[Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

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RuffRyder
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#21 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:28 am

Unstoppable1776 wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:10 pm
Spoiler:
CountTalabecland wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:46 pm
Unstoppable1776 wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:53 am Still don't know why engi are getting buffed. What spec is thorbolt? He hits like a truck and gets over 60 kills per zone.

Maybe instead of buffing an engi so you can play it. Just ask thorbolt for advice.

Currently this is complete nonesense.
So one Engineer out of the dozens on the server plays well and that means the class doesn't need any changes? Lol idk if you ever play order but, role a pug scen and see how new/bad players on engineer do. It is clearly not a class that one can pick up and own the zone/scen with it, if it was the 4-5 engis per scen would win them all for order.

Thorbolt and BT put tons of time and thought into their play and play well, this does not mean bring out nerf bats and whines for the whine god. This isn't even a "buff" its swapping a test ability in for one that was under-performing. I guess that makes it a "buff" in the sense the bad abilities are being worked on. Destro on these forums are unreal.
I have a lvl 60 engi, full beast lord with Merc and I can tell you the class is over powered. I havent tried the new change but before the change they we're imsane. Really good AOE I would say the best. Really good mobility with turret tactic, and really good burst. The M3 I almost felt bad. Would see a healer doing really well and I do a rotation plus m3 instant 2400 dmg and they dead. When a class already has high WS and a armor debuff they don't need a armor penetratiom as well. And what's up with the bonus int debuff plus BS. That's the best 5 piece bonus in the game.

Meanwhile a dok gets a touness debuff....um they already have a touness debuff skill. Can't even get the beastlord gear stats changed. There are way more subtle changes that could be done. Instead of these unnecessary changes. Engi we're in a good spot a bit OP but fine. There is no need for a change. Focus on other classes.
To be fair, you are right about some points, but I still don't see any overtuning with an ability that has 60s CD and costs 13 pt in ST tree. Sure you can use it for AoE if combined with another Mastery, too, if you take Blunderbuss or Frag Grenade, but it doesn't make much sense to waste points in the other trees for just using one ability that hits a bit harder on not even all targets.

It's correct that you don't have to go BiS and can achieve good results with BL + Merc and stack WS early if you want.

It's also correct that Cannon Smash is one of - if not the - best ST morals in game, but still, it's hitting one single target once and combining it with Armor-piercing Rounds does only make difference if you wanna take down a def-tank by first debuffing armor to penetrate it once more. But honestly, how often do you go for M3 and kill tanks.

The only thing to argue about is imho the duration of 12s, that can be quite long because you can push more than a single rotation with it.

Besides, I'm still convinced that picking Thorbolt as one example isn't representing the majority of us other Engineers. I've not seen many other Engineers doing that well in small-scale, and in large-scale it's usually the grouping and focusing that makes us that strong.

As a last note, pointing out that Sorc and Magus were a bit ahead of Engineers may be right, but while they suffered from the high disrupt values, we suffered from the armor-stacking. Both has been adressed now.
Now you should compare the Engineer to other PRDPS classes instead of casters, and here I see that while SH has more melee/CC possibilities, I can't say much about SW but in the end it has been stated by the balance team, that it doesn't make sense to tone classes down because they outweigh others, but to have the others be lifted to a similar level.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. (Mark Twain)

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Tesq
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#22 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 am

Cannon smash tooltip always has been not in line, all m3 are 1800 dmgs not 2400 but that's another thing. The new skill being 13 pt and 60 sec CD on a mostly st ranger mastery it dont buff aoe mastery.
Last edited by Tesq on Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RuffRyder
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#23 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:12 am

Tesq wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 am Cannon smash tooltip always has been not in line, all m3 are 1800 dmgs not 2400 but that's another thing. Being 13 pt and 60 sec CD on a mostly st ranger mastery it dont buff aoe mastery.
Cannon Smash definitely deals 2.400 dmg, using it myself.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. (Mark Twain)

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Glorian
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#24 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:43 am

Tesq wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:10 am Cannon smash tooltip always has been not in line, all m3 are 1800 dmgs not 2400 but that's another thing. The new skill being 13 pt and 60 sec CD on a mostly st ranger mastery it dont buff aoe mastery.
AoE Mastery has a lot of Corporeal Attacks.
The only two still Physical are Frag Grenades and the Blunderbuss shotgun.
Both not really the first choice for AoE Damage but can be used when everything else is on CD.

So technically the AP-Ammunition helps these two AoE attacks, but you dont ply a ST Riflemen to be in the frontline and dish out AoE. You die like a wet noddle if you do that, like I have witnessed several times this morning. :)

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Smellybelly
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#25 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:57 am

Just that people refer to engineers as "strong" brings a smile to my face. Engineer was always so bad on live, to see them as viable now and something to respect is good for the game imo.
Though how you can stand to listen to all that pew pew pew all the time is beyond me x)

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carlos
Posts: 241

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#26 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:14 am

Spoiler:
Unstoppable1776 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:28 am
Glorian wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:19 am Good.
Cooldown of 1 minute turns it into some kind of an mini M1. Like the WH Buffs and can't be spammed.
We will test it.
Unstoppable1776 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:28 am That last for 12 seconds. Engi even has WS tactics. Most engi probably run 700 plus WS. So if WS reduces armor by 40 percent, they get a 25 percent buff and now at 65...turret reduces armor....so I am down to 500 armor now? AM and Engi are topping the dmg charts and have great burst. Not sure why this change was made.
Zizzelfizz wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:04 am The Daily Destro Whine ,Order imba here, Order imba there.....
This sounds a tad ironic to me. During last weekend, the 5 SC's that i met Belladona (ofc with Jimson at side) you were on top of BOTH dmg and dps, EVERY single SC (except one of the five when you were on 2nd place with heals), doing at lowerst 220k dmg/204k heals.
This was with both AM's and Engi's in the SC's.

Further on, it only seems like anything that is getting a bit better and that might be something of "danger" to the preciuos hand holding combo of yours, is something that you don't want to be implemented.

Then again, I might be wrong.
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Unstoppable1776
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#27 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:36 am

I wouldn't have so many heals if there wasn't so many AMs and Engi doing so much dmg.
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Nameless
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#28 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:14 am

Unstoppable1776 wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:36 am I wouldn't have so many heals if there wasn't so many AMs and Engi doing so much dmg.
So u outheal all op orders claases while doing tons of dmg. Hm prolly not engis and ams need nerf but some destro class that surpass them
Mostly harmless

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carlos
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#29 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:31 pm

Unstoppable1776 wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:36 am I wouldn't have so many heals if there wasn't so many AMs and Engi doing so much dmg.
You crack me up. Are you actually thinking that this helps you out to prove your point? - M8, it doesn't, it only proves the complete opposite.


Though you're right about one thing (though not in the way that anyone else feels):
Unstoppable1776 wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:53 am Currently this is complete nonesense.
Starfkr


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peterthepan3
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#30 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:37 pm

Unstoppable1776 wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:36 am I wouldn't have so many heals if there wasn't so many AMs and Engi doing so much dmg.
I would like to see you posting evidence that shows this new 13-pt ability overperforming against your class, because my impression is that you probably have around 3-3.5k armor on your DPS DOK which means the ability would actually not be that noticeable: Engineer with 40/50% armor pen + WL armor debuff (let's max it out at 1600) + Cannon Smash (1400) = you have essentially no armor for that 25% armor pen buff to even be noticeable.

If you are equating damage done in a SC? Rifleman should be getting outdamaged by a well-played DPS AM or Grenade Engineer - but should be absolutely demolishing them on KBs. Remember, folks: damage done in scenario is not indicative of how viable a class/spec is.
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