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[Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

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Glorian
Posts: 4681

[Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#1 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:09 am

I have made some tests yesterday on the new lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition" buff on the Engi.

This is still work in progress so hold on.

Ok Test was made on Glasscannon engi:

BS 937
WS 626
Armor Reduction through WS 44,7%

I needed to reduce one Conqueror Item to not have the BS buff to make errors in the testing.
So my real WS is 666.


Ok first Test was made vs CW Bloodletters in front of the WC.
Spoiler:
Image
I don't see any reduced armor values, but checked how the total mitigation was reduced.
With the AP activated the total mitigation was reduced everytime by 7.4%
So I guess my high WS left not much more room for the AP to reduce even more.
Although the Turret Armor Debuff got even some more out of it. I actually don't know how?
If the target was on 0% Armor then the debuff shouldn't even get more out of it.
Anyway that was vs NPCs.

Test 2 was vs a lvl 37 BO SnB
Armor 3584
Mitigation 93,10% (Capped at 75%)
That are the Yellow Numbers.
The AP Buff reduced his overall Mitigation by 15.8%
BUTT the turret Debuff didn't changed that. We tested that for 3 times. All with the same result.
Mechanic wise it even makes sense. Turret reduces Armor of the Target. If the Target has still enough Armor to be above 75% it doesn't change the overal numbers.
Spoiler:
Image
The Green Numbers were made vs the same BO who turned off some Armor to be at the Edge of just 75% Armor mitigation. With no extra Armor above, the Turret Armor Debuff even helped the score to get 4.6% more armor reduction.


Conclusion:
Vs low Armor Targets the AP Buff gives a Glasscannon Engi something like 2-7% reduced mittigation.
Vs a 75% border Tank you get 15%, which can be pushed further by the Gun Turret Debuff to 19%
Vs a full deftard Tank you get 15%, which can't be pushed further by the Gun Turret Debuff.

Well that are the numbers I collected yesterday
It doesn't seem to be a simple 44.7% from WS plus 25% from buff. I don't know the formula behind it, but I guess the Toughness kicks in harder if more comes through the Armor.

PS.:
I was told to use the AP Buff vs a "Real" deftard Dok with 4000 Armor. There the tooltip armor reduction of 25% should be achievable.
Last edited by Glorian on Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:33 am, edited 4 times in total.

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nat3s
Posts: 289

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#2 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am

Any idea how the Magus compares in terms of numbers? If the damage post armour(engi) or spell resists(mag) is similar between then 2 then i'd say the Engi buff did its job.

Would love to see parity and balance rather than another lopsided mirror match up. Really useful numbers here, nice one.
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#3 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:42 am

nat3s wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:25 am
Any idea how the Magus compares in terms of numbers? If the damage post armour(engi) or spell resists(mag) is similar between then 2 then i'd say the Engi buff did its job.

Would love to see parity and balance rather than another lopsided mirror match up. Really useful numbers here, nice one.
There's still no comparison, magus has the hardest hitting spike rotation in the game that works good on all targets, that aren't avoidance deftards.
New ability on engi just increases dmg by 10-20% on targets that are armor stacking, whilst on light or medium armored ones it doesn't change that much. It's a nice addition though, in comparison to phosphorus shells or strafing run, that were pretty useless in rifleman tree.
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Unstoppable1776
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Posts: 596

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#4 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:53 am

Still don't know why engi are getting buffed. What spec is thorbolt? He hits like a truck and gets over 60 kills per zone.

Maybe instead of buffing an engi so you can play it. Just ask thorbolt for advice.

Currently this is complete nonesense.
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Zizzelfizz
Posts: 110

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#5 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:04 am

The Daily Destro Whine ,Order imba here, Order imba there.....
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#6 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:16 am

Unstoppable1776 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:53 am
Still don't know why engi are getting buffed. What spec is thorbolt? He hits like a truck and gets over 60 kills per zone.

Maybe instead of buffing an engi so you can play it. Just ask thorbolt for advice.

Currently this is complete nonesense.
Spoiler:
Why not skip the indirects and call me out directly like a big boy! Because you are referring to me, right? I don't recall having this 13-pter in our 2 previous 6v6 engagements, but that's besides the point.
The 13-pter is a tester/placeholder while we think of other abilities (if deemed necessary) that could replace it. Rifleman's 13-pter at the time (Strafing Run) made no sense whatsoever (thematically) in the Rifleman tree, and neither did Phosphorous Shells. The team decided to making Strafing Run a core Tinkerer ability (every Engineer I have spoken to thus far have agreed that this makes much more sense), Phosphorous Shells a Grenadier ability (given the fact that it is an AoE corporeal DoT - again, much more sense thematically) and to work on a new Rifleman-13pter. Given that Rifleman Engineers/Scout SW/PRDPS in general begin to struggle as gear sets with more armor are released, and that increasingly higher armor values will be a thing, we decided to test out a flat armor penetration ability (on a 1minute CD, no less) to see how this would help the Rifleman deal damage on targets that have high armor.

It is also worth mentioning that on squishy DPS DOKs who would blow up due to low armor values, this ability really doesn't do a lot when used in conjunction with double armor debuff - so I don't know where your complaints stem from.

Magus, on the other hand, can pretty much deal out the same damage on every target - regardless of their archetype.
Last edited by peterthepan3 on Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RuffRyder
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#7 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:19 am

It's not hard to pick some of the top renown players on this server and whine about their class, I could to so, too… but no, I'm an Engi, I'm biased. :P
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. (Mark Twain)

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kweedko
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Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#8 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:22 am

peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:16 am

The 13-pter is a tester/placeholder while we think of other abilities (if deemed necessary) that could replace it. Rifleman's 13-pter at the time (Strafing Run) made no sense whatsoever (thematically) in the Rifleman tree, and neither did Phosphorous Shells. The team decided to making Strafing Run a core Tinkerer ability (every Engineer I have spoken to thus far have agreed that this makes much more sense)
Oh i wish Wind of Insanity become core skill, totally similar skill aoe punt with long cd. :lol: :lol: :lol:
totally unbiased change kek
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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#9 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:32 am

kweedko wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:22 am
peterthepan3 wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:16 am

The 13-pter is a tester/placeholder while we think of other abilities (if deemed necessary) that could replace it. Rifleman's 13-pter at the time (Strafing Run) made no sense whatsoever (thematically) in the Rifleman tree, and neither did Phosphorous Shells. The team decided to making Strafing Run a core Tinkerer ability (every Engineer I have spoken to thus far have agreed that this makes much more sense)
Oh i wish Wind of Insanity become core skill, totally similar skill aoe punt with long cd. :lol: :lol: :lol:
totally unbiased change kek
It is unfortunately not similar at all, it doesn't give immunities, and if not countered by an interrupt it secures the spot by not letting enemies go through/get close till the end of duration.
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Glorian
Posts: 4681

Re: [Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

Post#10 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:06 pm

Truth to be told Thorbolt is top Engi in the zone the last two weeks with a Grenadier Setup, as Phoshourus Shells, as it is a top ability with range, high damage, and fast ticks moved to Grenadier.
And also he likes to spill oil on attackers. ;)

He is the Volgograd of the Engineers.

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