Update on 06.2018
WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
There was a recent discussion with me and the lads from Damaz Kron about the use of Weaponskill on the Rifleman Engi. Thorbolt for example is an RR 80 Engi in Conqueror gear and a kruttload of WS Talis and swears on it. While I’m against it as the past analysis of the formula shows that it is always subpar to just taking more BS and just have more damage at all. Especially since BS also boosts your Corporeal Damage Abilities, like almost everything on the Tinkerer, or most Dots.
Because Mitigation of the Target is not only Armor, but also Toughness. And that can’t be reduced by WS.
But Grey is all Theory; we need some empirical tests to see how it really is in the Field.
Here is the collected Data from me. Not enough for a full analysis but enough to find some kind of a modell or break even point analysis.
But first the Description of the Tests.
I got my Engi Lesti, and shot a Chaos Deamon several times in the Chaos Wastes with Gunblast. Critical Hits were not recorded. Netto Damage (After Mititgation) and the Mitigation itself make the total Damage of the Gunblast. Also not mentioned here is that I have around 20 extra Ranged Power on Lesti. Damage wise that counts as having 20 BS more.
I make a test with my Basic BS and Basic WS.
And then I equip a +18 BS jewelry and rerun the test. And then I remove the +18BS Jewelry and take the +18WS one instead.
The last Column is then the hand calculation of what Jewelry is actually better at that moment.
Link:
http://ohrhammer.online/wp-content/uplo ... SvsBS.xlsx
Observations:
In the first tests on the Chaos Deamon you could see that taking simply more BS is still better than taking more WS. I think a break Even of WS vs BS should be around 850 or 900 BS. Up from that point WS has the same Bonus as getting more BS. I’m not sure that WS will overtake BS on 1000 BS near the Softcap.
The second tests on the Troll Champions show a higher Mitigation on the NPCs. With 46% Mitigation the Break Even point is already reached at 780 BS. Getting a Turret or not has no impact on the WS vs BS ratio.
The last Test was a duell vs Syrtank. He is a Knight of the Blazing Sun with Sword and Shield. From a quick check he is not fully Armor Toughness build but has also some wounds in. Anyway, with a Mitigation of 80% he is a tough nut. And you can see that more WS is at BS 795 already better than more BS. Overall you are doing still krutting low damage.
Conclusions:
After Testing on a BS 1050 and WS 680.
With that High BS and WS you are doing a lot of Damage. Also vs Tanks. If they are on a 800 Toughness Build your dots still tick like -1 Damage.
So here is what to keep in Mind:
Don’t start to think of getting more WS if your BS is below 850.
If you are around 500 BS or lower, more BS is a LOT better than more WS.
WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
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WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
Last edited by Glorian on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Captain Lesti Ardisson - 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers.
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Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
Quick question why are these articles red ?
- catholicism198
- Posts: 1092
Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
Dev/database posts are red, yali (webmaster) is pinkish, gms are green, mods are dark blue-ish, commoners are pure gold.areanda wrote:Quick question why are these articles red ?
I think Glorian was promoted a few? months ago so all his topics- old/new became red.
Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
He's a database developer, thats why.
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Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
I can help with testing, I got rank 40 - chosen, BG, SH, Shammy, Marauder, DoK, Zealot, all or most are at least Ruin set or default set (either Mercenary or Annihilator).
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Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
If you go over the soft cap, don't you start getting diminishing returns, meaning it will be less effective?
Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
Very good.Telperien wrote:I can help with testing, I got rank 40 - chosen, BG, SH, Shammy, Marauder, DoK, Zealot, all or most are at least Ruin set or default set (either Mercenary or Annihilator).
On the Classes we wont do a full test. It is just to get a feeling what classes have what mitigation range.
You can build a glasscannon Sorceress or pump her up with every resist you can find for example.
@Red Color:
Yes, I'm a DB Dev, but all of my Threads are my personal opinion or have the same grain and knowledge level as a Player. So I dont have any more background knowledge, or know any secrets how the code reacts in certain ways. So most of my conclusions are from seeing how things behave in the game.
Captain Lesti Ardisson - 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers.
Full Gallery of Dwarf Weapons and where to find them.
Howto - Reduce Lag, Crashes, Disconects.
Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
It would be easier if you just determine the stat scaling coefficient for your abilties and do some actual math. The stats of all sets are available in wargrimnir spreadsheet. The jewerly on every decently equipeed character is either genesis/BL or armor set/BL. So the only thing you need are the base stats of your opponents. With that you can calculate the break even point between BS and WS for each ability against a certain representive set of stats.
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Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
Could be done. But that wouldn't be real numbers you see in the lakes.Cimba wrote:It would be easier if you just determine the stat scaling coefficient for your abilties and do some actual math. The stats of all sets are available in wargrimnir spreadsheet. The jewerly on every decently equipeed character is either genesis/BL or armor set/BL. So the only thing you need are the base stats of your opponents. With that you can calculate the break even point between BS and WS for each ability against a certain representive set of stats.
Also there are for Engi mostly Gunblast, Snipe, Crackshot as the WS Abilities. And Gunblast.
Most other stuff is just get more BS.
Captain Lesti Ardisson - 3rd Bitterstone Thunderers.
Full Gallery of Dwarf Weapons and where to find them.
Howto - Reduce Lag, Crashes, Disconects.
Re: WS vs BS – What to take on your Engi! Empirical Data.
Can't see any reason why that wouldn't be 'real' numbers. It just more stuff to put into the formula when you add stuff like guard, signal flare, armor debuffs etc...Glorian wrote:Could be done. But that wouldn't be real numbers you see in the lakes.
Also there are for Engi mostly Gunblast, Snipe, Crackshot as the WS Abilities. And Gunblast.
Most other stuff is just get more BS.
Anyway, the answer will probably be: It depends.
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