[Engi] Tests on lvl 13 "Armor Pierce Ammunition"

[wonshot]

To be fair, you are right about some points, but I still don't see any overtuning with an ability that has 60s CD and costs 13 pt in ST tree. Sure you can use it for AoE if combined with another Mastery, too, if you take Blunderbuss or Frag Grenade, but it doesn't make much sense to waste points in the other trees for just using one ability that hits a bit harder on not even all targets.

This is actually something I would like to see a little debate about. The arguement that it is a 13pointer and it should be worthwhile, makes sence in an isloated arguement when only looking at the one mastery tree. Because investing all the way up to 13point instead of stopping just at 9 to get Snipe, should matter.


But when we look at what else is available in the other mastery trees it is not as big of a "sacrifice" When you do spec deep in rifleman, get your Snipe 9pointer, and now 'Rounds at 13. you will run a rr60 build something along these lines:
http://waronlinebuilder.org/#career=eng ... :;;0:0:0:0:

Not much room for utility tactics, and honestly you are getting nothing more than just stacking damage on top of your Class-mechanic. And there is nothing wrong with this imho, but because of the nature of the 3 mastery trees and how different they work (singletarget psy - Aoe/ST corp - utility/psy&slight corp aoe). My point is that because of the mastery trees hardly support eachothers playstyle it is not a massive sacrifice to go deep in one tree, since your options from the other trees are very limmited and barely fit in, maybe apart from the utility Tinker tactics.


So if you want to bring utility as an engineer you will be forced to go all out on either damage stacking or full utility, and while I am thankful for this change to make Rifleman work and make perfect sence now, I think the class has more dire needs when it comes to masteries and fulfulling roles. But it is one step in the right direction for sure, and I cant wait to see the future changes.

This post was not meant as a direct respons to the quouted post, but instead a point I wanted to make towards this arguement of 13pointer and it's value right now.

[peterthepan3]

Tinkerer and Grenadier changes are in the pipeline and should (hopefully) be released for the community to experiment and give feedback on pronto.

[Kragg]

Rifleman should be getting outdamaged by a well-played DPS AM or Grenade Engineer - but should be absolutely demolishing them on KBs. [/i].

Why? I see the fluff damage of the grenadier but whythe DPS of a healerclass? The time we need to set up our damage potential surely should outdamage that of a healer class, hmm?

[Foomy44]

Rifleman should be getting outdamaged by a well-played DPS AM or Grenade Engineer - but should be absolutely demolishing them on KBs. [/i].

Why? I see the fluff damage of the grenadier but whythe DPS of a healerclass? The time we need to set up our damage potential surely should outdamage that of a healer class, hmm?

Gonna assume he means AM should be able to put out more aoe damage, probably due to the fact their damage mastery tree has multiple aoe abilites/tactics in it wheras rifleman tree has 0 (unless career builder is super outdated on em).

[Fallenkezef]

I'd like to see keg looked at, it's the Engineer version of rampage, every build takes it because it's too damn good not too.

as far as 13 pointers go I think they need to be special, powerful (while avoiding OPness) speccing that deep into a tree should be really worthwhile

[Sigimund]

I just dropped keg from my build. It's not that good.

[Foomy44]

Keg already took a massive nerf when it went from OOG healing to party only. It's 9 pts up the mastery tree, that's no small sacrifice for a build, it should be good at least. I haven't seen huge heal numbers from an engi in a while (in SC at least), and when they are good it's usually because they got to setup in 1 spot and not move the entire match which is where they are supposed to shine. Pretty nice free heals in keep sieges for sure.

[peterthepan3]

Rifleman should be getting outdamaged by a well-played DPS AM or Grenade Engineer - but should be absolutely demolishing them on KBs. [/i].

Why? I see the fluff damage of the grenadier but whythe DPS of a healerclass? The time we need to set up our damage potential surely should outdamage that of a healer class, hmm?

Healer archetype; if they spec for damage, they then should be considered a DPS because they are unable to function as a healer at that point.

Outdamage = do more damage overtime due to them being a rot class that can multidot. Rifleman is 95% ST damage, while DPS AM can spread potent dots.

[lefze]

I just dropped keg from my build. It's not that good.

It really isn't.

[Kragg]

Rifleman should be getting outdamaged by a well-played DPS AM or Grenade Engineer - but should be absolutely demolishing them on KBs. [/i].

Why? I see the fluff damage of the grenadier but whythe DPS of a healerclass? The time we need to set up our damage potential surely should outdamage that of a healer class, hmm?

Healer archetype; if they spec for damage, they then should be considered a DPS because they are unable to function as a healer at that point.

Outdamage = do more damage overtime due to them being a rot class that can multidot. Rifleman is 95% ST damage, while DPS AM can spread potent dots.

Makes sense alright. Thanks for clearing that up