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[Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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wiscel
Posts: 481

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#11 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 3:39 pm

Very nice guides. I will pick up my BG again now I have read these.
Nasty - R8X Squig Herder
Mehlindy - R8X Witch Elf
Donavicenta - R8X Sorceress

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Voidsmoker
Posts: 1

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#12 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:02 am

Great guide, thanks so much for putting this together. I'm relatively new to the game, still trying to find my footing, but I'm interested in the Black Guard with just one question.

Is there a specific reason (like Crimson Death) that I only ever see 2h BGs around? Or are SnB BG just not popular, but still viable?

TreefAM
Posts: 676

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#13 » Thu Oct 29, 2020 10:15 am

Voidsmoker wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:02 am Great guide, thanks so much for putting this together. I'm relatively new to the game, still trying to find my footing, but I'm interested in the Black Guard with just one question.

Is there a specific reason (like Crimson Death) that I only ever see 2h BGs around? Or are SnB BG just not popular, but still viable?
SNB bgs while being pretty tough tanks, barely offer anything to the group.
Outside of force of fury (the armor buff and useless chance to be crit buff) BGs don't offer any useful ST buffs to their DP target.
The aoe snare is nice, but it can also be used by a 2h BG (Yes Crimson Death and Hastened doom is why 2h is useful, but mind you, only one 2h BG per warband)
They have a strong m4 in the middle tree (Khaines Warding) which is the best tool destro has for funnel pushes, but you will ONLY use it if you go into forts or keeps, otherwise it's just wasted spaces since you'll never reach m4 in any other situation.
The only reason you would take an SNB bg is if you can't find a chosen or a borc.

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Eilhander
Posts: 32

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#14 » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:29 pm

bump
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Moonbiter
Posts: 66

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#15 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:51 am

There is a dilemma for WB SnB, what is better to pick: None shall pass (+50%block) or Shielded by Hate (+10%block).

There is not enough points to pick in the same time:
Force of Fury (mid)
+3%parry (mid)
+3%disrupt (right)
Wave of Scorn (mid)
+1% block (mid)
None Shall Pass (mid)

So, its narrowing to choose between static block or channelling block.

Ask you to advise

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#16 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:25 pm

eh.. I would not use that build in OP after FoF nerf.

Rarely go SnB and my BG is only ~R60, but would rather go:
R70 - 0-11-9 - SnB Black Guard

The armor portion of FoF is only 200-300 over pot (since they don't stack anymore) and 15% crit reduction is nice, but will generally only be 7.5% reduced damage and 3.75% after guard, and even less overall if they also have good avoidance stats. So probably around 5% dmg reduced over all on a single DPS/healer with a 50% uptime..

Not sure if the toughness max mitigation was removed before or after his post, but would also personally stack toughness over disrupt, since if you ever need to disrupt you have channel and HtL, with toughness talis,1-3 toughness set bonuses and Rugged + Terrifying Foe you can get ALOT of toughness which will reduce all pretty much dmg (except guard/morale, but you still have high block/parry for guard dmg).
Also guard check doesn't use disrupt anymore, making it even less enticing.

With this build you can also exchange 2 defensive tactics for Pitiless Feeding and Soul Killer.

Or you can go crit SnB - can be more tanky than 2H since you have block channel and still with wounds debuff and gets a 5sec kd, "just" missing Crimson Death:
R40 - 11-9-0 - SnB Black Guard

Either picking up additional tactics or putting raw points into Path of Malice with remaining points.
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

pvprangergod
Suspended
Posts: 171

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#17 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:45 pm

Remember to knockdown enemy DPS to save your friends. Also can knockdown enemy tank so they cannot guard swap (punt even better).

Moonbiter
Posts: 66

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#18 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:59 am

BluIzLucky wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:25 pm Or you can go crit SnB - can be more tanky than 2H since you have block channel and still with wounds debuff ...
Thanks for your insight. Does this wounds debuff reduce HP or just wounds? Can it kill?

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mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#19 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:22 pm

Spoiler:
BluIzLucky wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:25 pm eh.. I would not use that build in OP after FoF nerf.

Rarely go SnB and my BG is only ~R60, but would rather go:
R70 - 0-11-9 - SnB Black Guard

The armor portion of FoF is only 200-300 over pot (since they don't stack anymore) and 15% crit reduction is nice, but will generally only be 7.5% reduced damage and 3.75% after guard, and even less overall if they also have good avoidance stats. So probably around 5% dmg reduced over all on a single DPS/healer with a 50% uptime..

Not sure if the toughness max mitigation was removed before or after his post, but would also personally stack toughness over disrupt, since if you ever need to disrupt you have channel and HtL, with toughness talis,1-3 toughness set bonuses and Rugged + Terrifying Foe you can get ALOT of toughness which will reduce all pretty much dmg (except guard/morale, but you still have high block/parry for guard dmg).
Also guard check doesn't use disrupt anymore, making it even less enticing.

With this build you can also exchange 2 defensive tactics for Pitiless Feeding and Soul Killer.

Or you can go crit SnB - can be more tanky than 2H since you have block channel and still with wounds debuff and gets a 5sec kd, "just" missing Crimson Death:
R40 - 11-9-0 - SnB Black Guard

Either picking up additional tactics or putting raw points into Path of Malice with remaining points.
"eh" dear sir, this "BEGINNER" guide is older then your acc^^
bw only wbs was still a thingy back then...
may you explain me how guard is halfing armor values? shouldnt you try to get as much defensive stats as possible anyways as a tank? especialy if its one of your 3(maybe 4) support spells if you leave the archtype skills out of calculation?
in additon, even the builder is not showing it anymore, FoF should reducing inc dmg by another 6% according to ingame tooltip. hope i didnt missed it in patch notes.

yes you can stack toughness over disrupt now, but as said there was another time in the lakes, you will reach reasonalbe metigation with sov now anyways. So i would not realy advising sacking gear stats for more tougness, youll lose quite some wounds and a bit of armor, which would make you atleast a "green pot less" armored and ALOT OF avoidance from high set boni.
Spoiler:
maybe if you are expirienced and got real good dps it could worth, maybe...
i dont know if you missed it, but htl is heavly nerfed, its basicly parry against range know.

we also tested mindkiller in wb play, and its just not worth it. you lose one tactic slot....which then makes P-Feeding less valueable.

we also tested wounds debuff snb, it was not worth it. you are just a worse 2h tank.
you lose to much avoidance, since you have to expand hate for aoe. cant realy guard bigger preasure/fights.
Spoiler:
im not realy aware what you mean with crit snb, but i would not skill much in rr and then you can expect around 27% chance for event with mara debuff if targets have exactly 0% chtbc
dont deal any dmg.
a choosen can do this almost as affectiv without losing to much and gimping his defensses to much. Not sure if tooltip is correct atm, since for bg it looks like wounds debuff is not scaling with invested point???(would like to know)
just go 2h for this and play a second line tank.

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: [Black Guard] Begginer SnB build - Warband build

Post#20 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:17 pm

mubbl wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:22 pm
Spoiler:
"eh" dear sir, this "BEGINNER" guide is older then your acc^^
bw only wbs was still a thingy back then...
may you explain me how guard is halfing armor values? shouldnt you try to get as much defensive stats as possible anyways as a tank? especialy if its one of your 3(maybe 4) support spells if you leave the archtype skills out of calculation?
in additon, even the builder is not showing it anymore, FoF should reducing inc dmg by another 6% according to ingame tooltip. hope i didnt missed it in patch notes.

yes you can stack toughness over disrupt now, but as said there was another time in the lakes, you will reach reasonalbe metigation with sov now anyways. So i would not realy advising sacking gear stats for more tougness, youll lose quite some wounds and a bit of armor, which would make you atleast a "green pot less" armored and ALOT OF avoidance from high set boni.
Spoiler:
maybe if you are expirienced and got real good dps it could worth, maybe...
i dont know if you missed it, but htl is heavly nerfed, its basicly parry against range know.

we also tested mindkiller in wb play, and its just not worth it. you lose one tactic slot....which then makes P-Feeding less valueable.

we also tested wounds debuff snb, it was not worth it. you are just a worse 2h tank.
you lose to much avoidance, since you have to expand hate for aoe. cant realy guard bigger preasure/fights.
Spoiler:
im not realy aware what you mean with crit snb, but i would not skill much in rr and then you can expect around 27% chance for event with mara debuff if targets have exactly 0% chtbc
dont deal any dmg.
a choosen can do this almost as affectiv without losing to much and gimping his defensses to much. Not sure if tooltip is correct atm, since for bg it looks like wounds debuff is not scaling with invested point???(would like to know)
just go 2h for this and play a second line tank.
hahaha didn't mean any disrespect to the original post, and I don't think my builds are very good either but that's why you don't generally see SnB BGs, no? Also .. always take any advice from below R80s with a grain of salt :lol:

It's just my preference as SnB to take utility over more defensive stats once you reach a certain point, all I care about as SnB is mitigating enough dmg that I'm not a burden to the healers, not to be the last tank standing while your WB died two mins ago.

may you explain me how guard is halfing armor values? - Whoever you guard (and probably need to use FoF on) will only take half dmg, the other half you'll mostly parry/block.

shouldnt you try to get as much defensive stats as possible anyways as a tank? - maybe in fort or city to hold flag when you are losing, but outside that it becomes wasted skill points/stats at a certain point.

especialy if its one of your 3(maybe 4) support spells if you leave the archtype skills out of calculation?
FoF should reducing inc dmg by another 6% - Yes, it does, forgot about that.. so about ~8 to 15% reduction with 50% uptime, but you get a lot more flexibility in your builds if you go without FoF and free up some gcds :P

So i would not realy advising sacking gear stats for more tougness - obviously if you can go 7p Sov Main, that'd be better than most other stuff as far as tankiness goes, but prior to that (4p vanq + 4 invader/sov) and just that you don't have to spend all your points getting to Shielding Anger (vs Terrifying Foe) means you can pick up a lot more utility.

i dont know if you missed it, but htl is heavly nerfed, its basicly parry against range know.
- I know, but still does what it needs to and you have None Shall Pass in a pinch.

we also tested mindkiller in wb play, and its just not worth it. you lose one tactic slot....which then makes P-Feeding less valueable.
- yeah, it's more for small scale / sc :)
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

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