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[DoK] Healing spec guide.

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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Chourak
Posts: 3

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#41 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:01 pm

DroolingLion wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:57 am
What? 1: Vanquisher is so easy to get, you can get it in 4-7 days, do not skip it, especially for how good the set is.
2: Use Armor talismans. Once you have about 7k health, use Armor talismans from there. Unless you are specifically trying to counter a morale bomb, then 9k wounds is nice.
3: There are so many DoT's in warband play, you don't even use AOE cleanse in warband, You use something more useful, instead of wasting globals on a cleanse that is probably cleansing something there are 3 stacks of, in addition to 50 other DoT's. Better to heal instead of cleanse in warband, unless you have 5 second reduced cooldowns, even then its meh.
4: Khaines Refreshement should be used as a defensive tool with the Khaine's Bounty tactic. It absorbs like 2500 over 3 seconds, and the tactic Bound by Blood compliments that combo, as it heals all those people and heals you in return in addition to the absorbs. Use the synergies.
5: In Dark Rites, you should grab the first Tactic (Absorb on heal crit), Soul shielding & use that absorb as a lifeline, not casting it for nothing. Grab Khaines Vigor, and grab Khaines Refreshment and stop. That is 17 points in Dark Rites. Then you grab "Pillage essence" from Sacrifice tree, and also grab Devour essence in Sacrifice. OR you can go middle tree and grab Bloodthirst instead of devour essence.

The renown points should either be focused on getting 0% chance to be crit, with about 25% heal crit, and rest of points go to % defenses like parry/dodge/disrupt.
You can always max out heal crit first, then go to Futile strikes and % defences. Please don't put renown points into wounds, you need other things that are more useful.
For Tactics, you should have 1:AOE detaunt 2: Willpower 3: Absorb on heal crit 4: Bound by Blood. You can change Bound by Blood for something like Group cleanse, or whatever, But to increase your own personal ability to survive, the 4 I put up there have good Synergy & keep you quite tanky, especially with the armor talismans. If you have 4k armor and you have these tactics, you are going to be tanky, and heal for a lot because your tanking ability comes directly from your heals and heal crits. So the more you heal, the more tanky you become.


Morales: M1: Divine favor M2: Khaine's Withdrawal M3: It's honestly personal preference. Both the Melee absorb morale & the AOE stagger morale are very useful. I prefer the stagger, because you can use it defensively AND offensively. for M4, you usually arent using an M4. You want to be using your M1,2, or 3.


For your rotation, You need to keep 2 or 3 Soul Infusion HoT's ( Heal Over Time ) on the people in your group who are most likely to be jumped on and damaged, the most vulnerable. If you have a 6man with 2 heals, 2 tanks, 2 DPS, you would keep Soul Infusion on both of the DPS at all times, and refresh it when it hits 5 seconds so you have no downtime on it. After Soul Infusion is on prime targets, use Khaines Vigor, and keep these two HoT's up. At this point, you need to know "Khaines Invigoration" is your most powerful single target heal, & you should be using it on cooldown, on whoever is below 70% health. If they are below 70% health, you want to really be using Khaines Invigoration on cooldown, making sure both of your HoT's Soul Infusion & Khaines Vigor are on them. If Soul Infusion and Khaines Vigor are both on your target, and Khaines Invigoration is on cooldown, You use either Khaines Embrace, or Restore essence. If nobody else is in immediate danger of dying, you can use Restore Essence, as it instantly heals & ALSO leaves a 3rd HoT behind, at that point if you have all 3 HoT's on a single target, and Khaines Invigoration is still on cooldown, all you can do is Khaines embrace which is your group heal. If you have all 3 HoT's on your target, Khaines embrace and Khaines Invigoration fill in the gaps between the time the HoT's run out, and must be re-applied. That is how you can maximize heals on a single target.

Remember though, Restore Essence heals almost the same amount as Khaines embrace, it just leaves a HoT behind so you can maximize single target heals. If anyone else is dying in your group, forget about restore essence and just group heal instead. Restore essence is only useful if 1 person needs max heals on them. You use Soul Shielding ( The group absorb) as a Semi-Emergency ability, as it grants instant health basically, with a 60 second cooldown. Khaines refreshment ( The 30 foot AOE Channel) Hits 4 times over 3 seconds, and hits all allies near you. You should have 25% or more heal crit, so if there is even 5+ allies by you, that is going to absorb you about 2500 health over 3 seconds. With Bound by Blood tactic, it becomes even better. Use Khaines Refreshment as a defensive tool.

As for regenerating career resources ( Soul Essence) You should be using Blood Offering when you hit about 150-100 Soul Essence, and try not to let yourself drop too far down. Use it to top off your Soul Essence whenever you get the chance. If possible, use pillage essence on cooldown, as if not defended it grants you 95 Essence. So if someone is near you, Use Blood Offering, let it tick for a second and hit whoever with pillage essence, You are almost full essence. Just make sure you don't overextend using Pillage essence or Essence lash. You can heal just fine without either of those abilities, and only using Blood Offering if you manage resources wisely. I only use essence lash if there is 4 or 5 people right in front of me, and try to get away after using it. Kinda go forward, use it and back off. I personally rarely use essence lash, and instead play around Blood Offering and Pillage essence.

Remember with the DoK, AOE detaunt is different than the WP. You detaunt your target, and then everyone 30 feet around yourself. The WP is you detaunt your target, and everyone within 30 feet of THEM. With the average ping of most players, if you use this AOE detaunt while running, it will often miss. So it is usually best if you use it while the enemies are clearly right next to you. You want to use your Snare covenant, Use your punt as an emergency defense tool by punting people off of your ally or yourself. A well placed punt can save lives. I personally am a very selfish healer, that is why I use Bound by Blood instead of Efficient Patching, but you can always use the Efficient Patching, & Like the Gentlemen said, do not detaunt then attack, you attack to regen soul essence, THEN you aoe detaunt because ANY damage on someone you detaunt nullifies the detaunt.

If i missed anything point it out, but this is what i found to be most useful over my years playing DOK/WP.
Thanks !

Very instructive post, even i already use most part of your advices.
Devour essence isnt useless in a pure heal spec ? it deals nothing, so heals nothing...
I wonder how much willpower you aim to have ?
And about resistances ? Do you care of it ? Same for toughness ?

For the moment i have sacrificed some armor talis to get more willpower...but i dont really know if it's really efficient.

Unbuffed, my stats are :
- about 940+ willpower
- about 2400+ armor
- 21% crit heal
+ 325 toughness
- 0% chance to be crit
- 7k wounds, 384 in all res
- 12% dodge / 40% disrupt

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Twyxx
Posts: 921

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#42 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:57 pm

2400 armor seems pretty low. My DoK has about 4K armor and 8.2k wounds.
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sighy
Posts: 259

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#43 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:48 pm

Biggest reason i didn't really include armor talis, in the original post is because i don't expect a newbie to be walking around with like 1500g to burn on Talis alone.

jtj5002
Posts: 91

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#44 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:02 pm

I didn't to tali for wound to get over 8k hp. You never really know if you are going to be matched against a bomb warbard or a melee train.
I'm 3 piece sov 5 piece invader.
With all cheap 124/137 armor talis and with 660 armor pot and ligament, I am at 8.9k HP, 4.2k armor, 835 willpower, 28% heal crit, 14% parry. These stats are very balanced to go up against either melee train or morale bombs.
My end goal is 5 piece sov and 3 piece ranked triump. With full 164 tali in those gear I should be able to reach >9k hp, 4.4k armor and 33% heal crit.
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enzoneon
Posts: 22

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#45 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:10 am

What happened here, this post seems to be missing some replays (e.g. from DroolingLion). Is this a known forum bug?

Zxul
Posts: 1393

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#46 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:37 am

CityKitty wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:45 am I say Armor talismans, because a lot of Order characters hit Armor.
Out of curiosity, which order classes hit armor, actually care about armor (unlike say wh/slayer/wl mostly), and you actually care about their dmg?
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

Zxul
Posts: 1393

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#47 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:59 am

CityKitty wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:48 am
Zxul wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:37 am
CityKitty wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:45 am I say Armor talismans, because a lot of Order characters hit Armor.
Out of curiosity, which order classes hit armor, actually care about armor (unlike say wh/slayer/wl mostly), and you actually care about their dmg?
Engie hits armor, in comparison to Magus hitting through armor, SW hits Armor, Slayer, Wite Lion, DPS WP hits mostly armor, Witch Hunter. Basically everything hits with some form of armor except DPS runepriest, DPS AM, and Bright Wizard. Some of these classes have spirit damage abilities or some other resist attack, but all auto attacks hit armor as well.
Engi can easily have 600+ ws (42+% armor penetration), and then ability for another 25% armor ignore for 12 sec. Slayer can have up to 90% armor penetration. WL can easily have 700+ ws, and has a very nice armor debuff on top. WH ignores armor entirely with his spammable ability, if he is behind you (or realistically ignores it from any position after hitting Feinted Positioning).

So out of all classes which you listed, the only ones to actually care about armor is SW- rare, and even he got ability which ignores armor with tactic on a 5 sec CD, and dps WP- don't think I seen one in months.

So which class specifically are you using that armor vs?
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

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Vayra
Posts: 577

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#48 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:27 am

Zxul wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:59 am
CityKitty wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:48 am
Zxul wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:37 am

Out of curiosity, which order classes hit armor, actually care about armor (unlike say wh/slayer/wl mostly), and you actually care about their dmg?
Engie hits armor, in comparison to Magus hitting through armor, SW hits Armor, Slayer, Wite Lion, DPS WP hits mostly armor, Witch Hunter. Basically everything hits with some form of armor except DPS runepriest, DPS AM, and Bright Wizard. Some of these classes have spirit damage abilities or some other resist attack, but all auto attacks hit armor as well.
Engi can easily have 600+ ws (42+% armor penetration), and then ability for another 25% armor ignore for 12 sec. Slayer can have up to 90% armor penetration. WL can easily have 700+ ws, and has a very nice armor debuff on top. WH ignores armor entirely with his spammable ability, if he is behind you (or realistically ignores it from any position after hitting Feinted Positioning).

So out of all classes which you listed, the only ones to actually care about armor is SW- rare, and even he got ability which ignores armor with tactic on a 5 sec CD, and dps WP- don't think I seen one in months.

So which class specifically are you using that armor vs?
Having more armor helps, that's simple fact. There's a good reason armor talis are so much more expensive than other talismans, and it's not that fragments are harder to get.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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sighy
Posts: 259

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#49 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:58 am

Vayra wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:27 am Having more armor helps, that's simple fact. There's a good reason armor talis are so much more expensive than other talismans, and it's not that fragments are harder to get.
Armor talis are some of the most pain to farm, when you want the best ones. rng on mobs to spawn, crit to get the right fragment and crit to get the big tali. But demand also plays a role.

Ideally you want to use talis to supplement the gear you use, in order to hit key stat thresholds no matter what you play. Wounds and armor being most prevelent for DoK since you are going to be hanging around meele to mid range and are going to get hit by the meele train and morale bomb eventually.

sighy
Posts: 259

Re: [DoK] Healing spec guide.

Post#50 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:02 am

enzoneon wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 6:10 am What happened here, this post seems to be missing some replays (e.g. from DroolingLion). Is this a known forum bug?
They probably deleted it. There is an offchance that a mod came in to delete it, but i don't think that's the case.

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