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[Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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zachary
Posts: 71

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#11 » Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:41 pm

>You will often find yourself with ample opportunities to heal debuff several healers, simultaneously

How 'simultaneously' ? Soul Killer is single target. Or am I missing something?
Xand*r*nius is still trying to Learn To Play

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Tiamath
Posts: 57

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#12 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:06 am

Hello
Im afraid he means to ping pong from healer to healer like a hornet while they piss themselves from laugh- so dreadful.
:)
yes its single target.
Next stop? The frontline ...
Tiamath - RR83 Blackguard, Khaladh of Kar Khadath Regiment.

orillah
Suspended
Posts: 168

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#13 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:15 pm

The only downside is that often order have 1 or zero healers in a sc. But there's a plague of dps am's nowadays so its still useful.

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Tiamath
Posts: 57

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#14 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:14 am

Hello,
I experianced completly diffrent scenarios, most order pug have always more healers and overall they perform/play better. Still they put you on tight leash. Soulkiller is cleansable, even If i tried many times to be a healers bane, jumping from caster to caster they support each other very nicely thus they do their job despite me trying to make their work hard.
Next stop? The frontline ...
Tiamath - RR83 Blackguard, Khaladh of Kar Khadath Regiment.

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Tiamath
Posts: 57

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#15 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:04 pm

EDIT 07-10-2019
version #2 Anguish Overhaul
Soulkiller Tactic asisde from healing debuff, makes Choking Fury to strike all enemies in front (Monstrous rending Radius)
Elite Traning - also applies to dodge.
Shielding Anger tactic - also buffs dodge 3%
Bolstering Anger - no changes
Unstoppable Fury tactic - works with taunt/challange also, each taunt/challange/detaunt dispelled grants a stack with 10% damage bonus that last up to 5 sec, stacks up to 3 times.

Supporting changes:
Endless Pursuit Tactic - works also with Dodge.
Demise Refusal - new tactic, Bolestering Anger ticks are twice the amount of heal but lasts maximum up to 15 sec. Hate consumption also doubled. Cooldown unchanged
Bleaksword Doctrine- new tactic, increases Elite Training stacks to 8. Elite training works with shield also.

M4 as Devs suggests in lates discussion or keep it as it is with larger radius /dmg.
Next stop? The frontline ...
Tiamath - RR83 Blackguard, Khaladh of Kar Khadath Regiment.

blechkautz
Posts: 83

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#16 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:09 pm

Tiamath wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:04 pm EDIT 07-10-2019
version #2 Anguish Overhaul
Soulkiller Tactic asisde from healing debuff, makes Choking Fury to strike all enemies in front (Monstrous rending Radius)
Elite Traning - also applies to dodge.
Shielding Anger tactic - also buffs dodge 3%
Bolstering Anger - no changes
Unstoppable Fury tactic - works with taunt/challange also, each taunt/challange/detaunt dispelled grants a stack with 10% damage bonus that last up to 5 sec, stacks up to 3 times.

Supporting changes:
Endless Pursuit Tactic - works also with Dodge.
Demise Refusal - new tactic, Bolestering Anger ticks are twice the amount of heal but lasts maximum up to 15 sec. Hate consumption also doubled. Cooldown unchanged
Bleaksword Doctrine- new tactic, increases Elite Training stacks to 8. Elite training works with shield also.

M4 as Devs suggests in lates discussion or keep it as it is with larger radius /dmg.
1. A outgoing HD without a cooldown is already strong enough to make the tactic worth using. No need to also bind a strong aoe ap drain to it.
2. Not sure if that would buff Elite Training, since for example it would make it harder to negate a BW rotation. Also Elite Training is really strong when timed right...
3. Shielding Anger: Yes we need +30% on all avoiding skills on bg if you have 100 hate. Means going snb and press htl = immune to range?
4. The damage+ part is unnessesary. Why should you get +10% dmg only cause a tank used challenge (to reduce your dmg) or a guy pressed aoe detaunt next to you. And a potential +30% dmg increase on all skills on a 3pt tactic seems "maybe" a bit to much, given that bg can already deal a good amount of dmg.
5. Endless Pursuit. A movementspeed increase on a core tactic is already strong, no need to buff it.
6. No need to change your selfheal to a burst heal, like getting over 1k hp every 3 seconds...
7. Elite Training already works with a shield. And increasing it from 4 to 8 would make it way to strong in smallscale. Also the Ap feed would go crazy. Would be a free ap pot for your whole party.

Fazit: Besides Bolstering Anger (which is only for solo/smallscale without heal) the tree already works fine as a support tree imo, i don't the a reason for these changes.

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wachlarz
Posts: 798

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#17 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:55 pm

For Me prob. Is hate. If u play a tank U dont need to spam skils and hate is about 100% full. But if U play a dps u need spam skils and hate drop very fast and u lose bonuses from hate.

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Tiamath
Posts: 57

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#18 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:03 pm

Hello
1. its cleansable, in current meta order is flowing with AMs/RPs. In scenarios you almost 24/7 in perma slow so the idea to suppress all of them all by yourself especialy since nobody specs Anguish.
2. BW attacks are magic right? So disrupt not dodge.
3. Yes and nothing more you add to the table right now, besides AP runs out someday.
4. Even combined with Malice tools it wont be that impressive, also you would drop like fly while not having parry tactic.
5. You need to pump into disrupt tactic to see it proc all the time and to make it close perma with HTL you invest already quite a lot.
6. I was considering also changing to stacking shield to make some tool to tank morale damage.
7. Numbers can be adjusted for balance. By working with shield I meant to count as block for stun purpose. SWs Rapid fire can quickly burn your stacks so not so op, its 30 sec CD right? Free AP pot, sure why not? Since you have finaly something to offer to group :)
You need to get it triggered too.
Besides zealot aleady have safer form of that. Most of the comments are no need to buff, so why nobody goes for Anguish?
Next stop? The frontline ...
Tiamath - RR83 Blackguard, Khaladh of Kar Khadath Regiment.

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mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#19 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:23 pm

blechkautz wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:09 pm
Tiamath wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:04 pm EDIT 07-10-2019
version #2 Anguish Overhaul
Soulkiller Tactic asisde from healing debuff, makes Choking Fury to strike all enemies in front (Monstrous rending Radius)
Elite Traning - also applies to dodge.
Shielding Anger tactic - also buffs dodge 3%
Bolstering Anger - no changes
Unstoppable Fury tactic - works with taunt/challange also, each taunt/challange/detaunt dispelled grants a stack with 10% damage bonus that last up to 5 sec, stacks up to 3 times.

Supporting changes:
Endless Pursuit Tactic - works also with Dodge.
Demise Refusal - new tactic, Bolestering Anger ticks are twice the amount of heal but lasts maximum up to 15 sec. Hate consumption also doubled. Cooldown unchanged
Bleaksword Doctrine- new tactic, increases Elite Training stacks to 8. Elite training works with shield also.

M4 as Devs suggests in lates discussion or keep it as it is with larger radius /dmg.
1. A outgoing HD without a cooldown is already strong enough to make the tactic worth using. No need to also bind a strong aoe ap drain to it.
2. Not sure if that would buff Elite Training, since for example it would make it harder to negate a BW rotation. Also Elite Training is really strong when timed right...
3. Shielding Anger: Yes we need +30% on all avoiding skills on bg if you have 100 hate. Means going snb and press htl = immune to range?
4. The damage+ part is unnessesary. Why should you get +10% dmg only cause a tank used challenge (to reduce your dmg) or a guy pressed aoe detaunt next to you. And a potential +30% dmg increase on all skills on a 3pt tactic seems "maybe" a bit to much, given that bg can already deal a good amount of dmg.
5. Endless Pursuit. A movementspeed increase on a core tactic is already strong, no need to buff it.
6. No need to change your selfheal to a burst heal, like getting over 1k hp every 3 seconds...
7. Elite Training already works with a shield. And increasing it from 4 to 8 would make it way to strong in smallscale. Also the Ap feed would go crazy. Would be a free ap pot for your whole party.

Fazit: Besides Bolstering Anger (which is only for solo/smallscale without heal) the tree already works fine as a support tree imo, i don't the a reason for these changes.
pretty much this, the tree is pretty fine and works well as support to other trees, which more or less are split in offense(2h) and defense(snb).
point 3: bg have plenty of anti magic stuff and anti phydical stuff already, htl alone gives 45% dodge. dogde was always a "prob" for black guards, because...balance?

GpuSW
Posts: 13

Re: [Blackguard] - Anguish tree overhaul

Post#20 » Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:33 pm

imagine thinking a spammable out hd is bad because it can be cleansed: hide it under other debuffs, healers can't focus 100% on cleansing everything, profit.

trash players come out with the most trashy things. your entire proposal reeks of inability to play the class to its fullest

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