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About Survival BG Vs IB

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#21 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:48 pm

Swiftly wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:12 pm So BG's are not wanted in WarBands. I just read this thread and also based on some convo that was happening in game the last couple of days it seems BG's are considered a liability in Warbands and in general. Ugh...every class I am interested in has some issue....
Who every told you this was full of **** spewing crap out their ass

BG has one of the best WB ability combos in the game with Crimson Death + Hasted Doom

Its one of the hardest hitting tool tip damage abilites in an AoE and Hastend Doom's wound debuff is the largest on destro also in an AoE

On top of ofc the stacking crit debuff

On top of additional AoE from monsterous rending and furious howl
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LordEfelent
Posts: 1

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#22 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:07 pm

So a lil confused, are you guys saying that the sword and board BG isnt good/used in WB's atm but the 2H crimson death BG is?

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#23 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:17 am

LordEfelent wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:07 pm So a lil confused, are you guys saying that the sword and board BG isnt good/used in WB's atm but the 2H crimson death BG is?
WB play is all about AoE and morale bombing

unlike chosen and BO, who have some form of morale pump to get Raze or M4 fast(er) than BG who has no such thing

Compared to SnB BG 2H bg can bring a lot more to a WB
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#24 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:36 am

yes and 2h bg is prop the best 2h overall tank for wb in game
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Swiftly
Posts: 6

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#25 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pm

Tesq wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:36 am yes and 2h bg is prop the best 2h overall tank for wb in game
And Now after the Guard Nerf?... :shock:

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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#26 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:44 pm

Swiftly wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:40 pm
Tesq wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:36 am yes and 2h bg is prop the best 2h overall tank for wb in game
And Now after the Guard Nerf?... :shock:
guard nerf do no hit tanks it hit the guarded one...in term of self survability is a buff to 2h cuz you take less dmg from guard...yet due this duno what melee or rdd want to be guard in zerg by a 2h now... considering des have mara, maybe a def mara or a def magus...

vs daily open wb it sure can work, vs serious one....dont think so...
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Kitsumy
Posts: 11

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#27 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:54 am

I just start playing the game as tank black guard so yes of course i have a shield always and never tried 2hand.

Thing is i usually dont see any blackguard but i see lots of ironbreakers. So i saw his abilitys and how come they are so much better in everything????

Both have the same +thoughness. Str and armor. Thoughness debuffs.

Differences are bg have:
30 parry
10 block
45% thoughness
All those things are only if we are full hate only so we usually havent those so high.

And a 50% uptime on 600 def buff.

In exchange ib has:
10 block
25 parry
1300 defense
50 ini
-5% dmg taken
75 ws 50% of the time
-15% dmg taken for 5 secs after blocking so pretty much always.

So whats the deal??? The differences are huge. Ib havent any hate requierement and still being full hate that isnt realistic ib get 20% dmg reduction that is huge. 1300 armor that is totally retarded again. 50 free ini for less crit taken. Some ws to have higher parry.
And instead all that we only get +45% of useless thoughness???? And are forced to be full on hate. Despite we are at 0 against ranged and need some ramp up time against melees.


So how are those 2 mirror class cloose to be balanced???

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Stophy22
Posts: 444

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#28 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:02 pm

As more experienced players than myself have already answered the question completely. I’d like to chime in as well for 2H specs and my experiences.
Spoiler:
I think if you look at the two classes you see different advantages and disadvantages. I’ve never played IB personally (at level 40) but I have done my research. The ability to slot armor in a tactic slot and buff it constantly is just a better defense than toughness roids, not to mention they have resistance buff tied to an ability as well. Iron breakers trees even work out a little better with specs imo*
Spoiler:
this is my opinion not trying to cause debate, sorry if you think it’s wrong. I’m a little to tired to go into it currently.
many people make the argument to where you have to be a very high rr to play BG 2H spec correctly and you shouldn’t even consider it before that point.
Spoiler:
To which I say **** that I love my glaives and I hate elitist mentality. But it is not without its knowledge


You also have to take into the account who you fight more. On IB people will argue that you’ll see more melee dps because destro likes melee trains. This makes the armor you get very important. Where as the exact opposite for BG, ranged dps is very prominent in RVR zones on order side. And toughness would be pretty good here but it’s no resistance. Spirit resist tactic is good tho but it’s very situational.

This isn’t to say that’s all you’ll see just usually what people argue or mention.

Anyway I could go on and on but I think at the core of you played BG and have dabbled in IB you’ll see wha you’re missing out on and I’ll leave with this ironic analogy: playing BG is like living in a cave, while IB can smell the fresh air and feel he wind in his beard.

But I feel comfortable in my cave and I have a fresh water supply and an unending food supply of squishies who detaunt and ignore BG’s.
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BeautfulToad
Posts: 631

Re: About Survival BG Vs IB

Post#29 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:40 pm

This is slightly off the topic but one thing I noticed playing IB and BG is the grudge/hatred mechanics. On the dwarf faction guide, they say grudge is difficult to manage. I find on IB, it is very easy to get 100 grudge and maintain it since grudges/hatred grow with damage to your partner. So, find a slayer, follow him around and you'll basically have full grudge whenever in combat. Quite a number of abilities are enhanced and don't require you to spend grudges. Am I missing something?

On the BG, however, it looks like there is much more micromanaging of hatred with powerful abilities requiring you to spend Hatred. Whereas IB seems to be able to buff his partner quite well (and with 2-hander do some nice damage to single targets as well), the BG seems to have less abilities to buff his partner, and it is significantly less important to stay beside your choppa or mara as BG. Am I overlooking some essential abilities for BG?

I would say BG in particular have quite nice AoE stuff and suited to a 2-hander. In the looming changes to 2-handed tanks is there any chance these classes might be exempt from further nerfs? As people have pointed out, removing guard hurts mdps damage output, and probably improves tank damage output.

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