[DoK] Shield Spec Rend Soul Underperforming?

[Skullgrin]

Would like to note something that you may want to take into account when testing stuff in groups and warbands at the moment, I've found myself (and I'm sure others are also doing it) specifically targeting Warrior Priests just to see how the changes affect MY ability to do damage to them.

You may feel much more squishy due to the fact that you have more people targeting you all at once. This will probably go down some once people get a feel for how the changes affect them.

Heh, unless of course you solo roam a bunch - I feel squishy like this whenever I get caught by a group of six or more players attacking me all at once...

[Luuca]

Would like to note something that you may want to take into account when testing stuff in groups and warbands at the moment, I've found myself (and I'm sure others are also doing it) specifically targeting Warrior Priests just to see how the changes affect MY ability to do damage to them.

You may feel much more squishy due to the fact that you have more people targeting you all at once. This will probably go down some once people get a feel for how the changes affect them.

Heh, unless of course you solo roam a bunch - I feel squishy like this whenever I get caught by a group of six or more players attacking me all at once...

Good points, but the topic wasn't survivability per se. As a melee healer, there are several hard counters to shut us down. A decent player knows these and, like the WH who does 3500 damage on the first 3 second KD then pops 100% parry chance for 7 seconds eliminating any possibility of melee heals, press the IWIN button and my rock gets beaten by their paper every time. I know we are squishy... they know we are squishy.. not an issue. The issue is an interruptible 3 second channeled ability with an 8 second cooldown that requires you to be in melee range (and stay in melee range) is healing for less than I feel it should.

[adamthelc]

I was hoping more that Shield will cut your pure healing output something similar to Divine Fury.
Salvation Healer WP don't need more protection, but Melee Healer specced purely in Grace yes.

Offtopic to OP's post, but a caster WP/DoK that takes shield isn't gaining RF regen from book/chalice anymore. Also, applying a heal debuff to shield would further push hybrid spec into the grave.

RF should not be a problem if as melee healer u will be upfront spaming Smite on enemies, with tactic ChF no problem at all...

You cant really do that. Melee healers still need to cast heals to be effective healers. Grace/ Salv is the way to be a melee healer, not grace/wrath.

Putting a shield on over a book means you have to be in melee to make up for the loss of RF from a book. Being in melee makes you a melee healer.

Slotting Divine Fury and Fanaticism while going grace makes you a melee hybrid.

[Rydiak]

@Luuca

And any buffs that the devs could make to DA/SA and DS/CE would have to be tied to the shields, otherwise Wrath/Torture get the benefit of those buffs too.

[Tesq]

gona leave my feedback here since i didnt see an official feedback thread and this feel like the less whine thread off all.. gona spoil since is long; short version still a lot work to do to make this work in all enviroment (sc/rvr) and in all place (open field /keep wall / funneling)

Spoiler:

PROBLEMS:

-build require as core not many things but they are spread all over the 3 masterys

first one is detaunt, feedback it alredy but you can't have detaunt on dps mastery when the build is designd as full heal (you build heal mastery + melee heal mastery).
basically all the caster heal stuff is still mandatory and dont mesh well , especially when 1 mastery is willp based and another one is str based; waste all mastery point on 1 mastery just to reach detaunt is foolish when ALL clasess in game spec 2/3 mastery at their best.

-again the heal based on dmg problem

melee healers are melee caster if they hit they hit for heal nto for dmg, have to build str is bad extremly bad, remove the heal scaler on dmg done and assign fix heal value for melee heals based on casted heal ( they alredy do not prov absorb tactic so is fine).
aka khaine embrace heal 1k then the group melee heal must heal 1k

-various detaunt problem

first as said above it should be out of any mastery
second as reported in past for enable dok/wp to perform as melee healers you cant have a guard you need to be indipendent or at least partialy ---- detaunt cannot be limited to 9 target and must be passive or a kd /disarm by ppl with some cool add on and good eyes **** you.
Melee heal could give on 13 pt a not stackable 35% ish or more dmg reduction. This way guard can still be used and you can also spec for detaunt tactic but if you fight vS more THAN 9 ppl you still have a min of dmg reduction; alternatively rework dok/wp group heal (+dmg on dok) proc into a self passive detaunt which reduce dmg and dont stack with detaunt-
Dmg proc (+snare on dok) can be made a 10% charge for dps mode (that way with m2 and this fix version you are a dps from all angles).

-cleanse problem

self cleansing is problematic when you are getting focussed hard wasting 1 gcd when you both need heal and cleanse make the sich way too hard, if you would had been ranged it would be fine but since you are fighting melee you need sorta of faster way to cleanse yourself, possible not in place of use an actuall heal (but both togheter).

-melee healer is "A " front line-caster and not jsut a heal hitter

you must use casted heal in melee no matter what, heal on hit are for move around or filler as regain essence since no chalice while still keep heal up (aoe essence rec should be used only if you are in bad spot with essence since is risky), but the core of your meccanic is spam group heal and proc absorb while also keep ppl detaunt, thats the only way to make dok/wp durability level enough to heal ppl while taking dmg. If playing a melee dok/wp you cant have the weakness of a ranged healers: set back must be reduced or removed (cast time increase instead can stay and this could also make it more worth aswell as disarm and silence and KD).

-shield block

too low, my chosen have more armor+ more block and class specific avoidance; 20% of tanks block is not enough it need to be 50% at least but due not have access to tanks specific avoidance stuff it coudl also be made 100% (not even block on gear ) what i would had been on my dok would had been : 20% block 30% parry, 30% dodge, 40% disrupt. (due my chosen going around in 27, 64,68,64 i dont see how make block more even would make that way too good (and specifing my chosen is not full renown in avoidance my dok had to spec full renown and only that basically to reach this so basicallymy chosen at this point would had like 50 renown points yet to spent in proportion so like 30 spent vs 60...).

-shield stats

i know is a trial all work in progress but those stats are a punch in da face...swap all as follow:

toughness (primary)
willpower (secondary)
-crit reduction
-reducing armor pen
-ap regen (be genrous with this, no way rec ap exept by slot ap tactic on casted heal crit)

this way a melee dok/wp can work well and all his need are fully filled from the shield

-no way to substain heal out of melee

aka , no one think about keep siege really? the spec must be usable IN EVERY ENVIROMENT such in this case as keep walls (this is exatly why this sort of implementation failled in live/beta).
there is no prob in give dok/wp alwaye essence regen; the meccanic and cost are flawled to begin with since live because their are based on have all the sov essence stuff and while using melee skill you would have essence up anyway. Do as follow:

-remove all essence from chalice
-by meccanic default now dok/wp always regen 8 essecen x seconds
-now add 0/1/2/3 essence regen on all chalice based on rarity (green/ blue/ purple/ orange)

now both type of gameplay are working; you both fix/soft the enourmouse cost of casted heal while in range mode and allow to heal in keep siege situation on melee heal mode.

-parry tactics

due what wrote above this tactic cant no longer have a heal debuff component, you need to remove the heal debuff when holding a shield, at that point the casted heals should eb enough to allow you to stay still in melee range while focussed and cast your heals, proccing absorb bubble, cleanse yourself etc-
This is so much underestimate but is much important , jsut rhink about that as melee heals your hots are worst than the casted heal one so you handicap yoursefl 2 times.

-cd increase

cheese slayer 100% applying you cd increase are a finger in the ass , as always...( and know what is just the number one meta melee on order side stil running the aoe build in sc), dok/wp need 1 skill most likely the out of group melee heals which IGNORE cd increase; or even better punish spammer slayer even more by make all melee heals ingoring cd increase (so x above they slow your cast heal with cd increase and remove melee with disarm and make life harder but you can still manage with heal circling till melee heal dont get back from disarm + . If this dont get fix this will be a faillure agaisnt any good premade.

-inequality betwee dok/wp

A-what is subpar for dps spec is op for grace on wp (aka parry buff) due stack with tactic and kobs not having one on his own ---> jackpot !!!
move parry buff into dps mastery or out of any and bind it to 2h (so it can only be use to match dok dual wield and just that)

B-racial absorb tactic (same for chaos and whole emp) is just better than the cated heal one on left mastery (cuz is passive ) for melee heal spec , dok dont have a counter part and on KD this can be a life saver; same goes for leading the prayer (actually a good alternative is bound by blood but it need to get fix to work on melee heals )-
regarding giving the bubble alternative dark elf have a subpar heal buff tactic with only 10% and only from cast heals....... This should be changed into 15% and heal increase from all source (aka isha protection is 20% for free on high elf dakr elf got for some random reason 10% only , i actualy dont know if that tactic work on all source or just direct i assume raw with all source): anyway a more balanced value and way to increase heal should be found for this tactic because it really is one of the worst tactic in game.

C-exalted defense and no real counterpart on dok, 1 parry = all group member or out of group ppl reciving 20% more heals (stacking with any other heal buff in game ) is op you know we know, balance BOTH classes cannot prescind by either improve dok tactic sich which is st and requiring def target) or nerf the wp one in some way; pick one but pick it you cant leave it like this (or pick half of both idc).

discplaimer:
the detaunt fix to prevent the shield to became the new ranged mode should also came with range reductioin of 25% so that group heals are 75 feets instead 100 and st are 112.5 instead 150, this way you are forced to be melee range always (range are similar to change magus so that's equivalent in practise as melee range for various reasons i wont name here but i know its that way cuz my change magus experience)

[altharion1]

Spoiler:

Rofl all these people getting baited into trying this melee shield healer.

There’s only one result in trying this fundementally flawed concept - that is be prepared to get farmed.

Spoiler:

OP already said he was killled 10 times in a single SC. My comment is already justified

Take your snark somewhere else - Torque

[Luuca]

Below is an example of the healing between a TE with Tactic and a Rend Soul on a WL Pet. This is very typical of all the combat logs I have from SCs.

Spoiler:

IMO Rend Soul is underperforming for what it is. It's a focused single target heal, 3 second channel, on an 8 second CD. In reality, you basically get an extra 50% of a typical TE strike by spending the Soul Essence and time to fire it off. You could get 3 Transfer Essences off for typically more heal per AP, but RS does give you one extra 50-60% heal.

IMO it needs to be performing better for the SnB DoK. about 25%-35% better to make the class more than a 1-button melee heal.

[DanielWinner]

Just a little suggestion:
I think, it would be fair to give those classes a skill based on the shield. The main part of it should be related to healing: for example, “You heal your allies for X health every time you block an enemy attack (1-2 seconds icd)”.

[Vayra]

“You heal your allies for X health every time you block an enemy attack (1-2 seconds icd)”

That sounds like a good idea, though with the general low block chance available (even with RR investment) I'm not sure an ICD is really necessary, at least not for a first iteration. One can always be added later if it proves too strong.

[Luuca]

The real issue is that without something to hit, you cant heal effectively.

Heal on block is a decent idea. I would like to see an ability like Hold The Line that will consume career resourses and provide a group heal/hot. That way, when im punted away, i can HTL on my way back and at least provide some heals. Maybe a combo of increasing block while active to help improve surviveability as well.