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Blackguard Builds

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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Needabeer
Posts: 57

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#211 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:41 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sun May 20, 2018 9:41 am
mursaat1337 wrote: Sun May 20, 2018 9:20 am i don't understand why IB has 25% parry for themselves and their oathfriend at 5 pt skill for a whopping 15 grudge while BG gets gutted out to an 11 pt tactic for self parry and the reason is "it parries too much guard dmg" and IB doesnt with its 5 pt? not only did the nerf slam 2h BG, you cant spec heal debuff with parry anymore and go malice while IB can have a kd, aoe snare, parry(also for team mate), and heal debuff with ease.
This is correct but it happened for balance reasons. :^)
Beginning to see a common theme here......

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Ridduk
Posts: 333

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#212 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:16 am

Needabeer wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:41 pm
Sulorie wrote: Sun May 20, 2018 9:41 am
mursaat1337 wrote: Sun May 20, 2018 9:20 am i don't understand why IB has 25% parry for themselves and their oathfriend at 5 pt skill for a whopping 15 grudge while BG gets gutted out to an 11 pt tactic for self parry and the reason is "it parries too much guard dmg" and IB doesnt with its 5 pt? not only did the nerf slam 2h BG, you cant spec heal debuff with parry anymore and go malice while IB can have a kd, aoe snare, parry(also for team mate), and heal debuff with ease.
This is correct but it happened for balance reasons. :^)
Beginning to see a common theme here......
Order bias for sure :roll:

mubbl
Posts: 277

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#213 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:34 am

Answer is fof elite training, 500 toughness you get for free, and also you got a heal for you and your dp. Bg better selfsustain then ib caus its an elve and dwarf has more team abilitys cause of class deversity and pop issues on live. Also 10 sec super punt and the 5 sec kd are the best ccs in game...grass is always greener on the other side (;

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#214 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 am

mubbl wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:34 am Answer is fof elite training, 500 toughness you get for free, and also you got a heal for you and your dp. Bg better selfsustain then ib caus its an elve and dwarf has more team abilitys cause of class deversity and pop issues on live. Also 10 sec super punt and the 5 sec kd are the best ccs in game...grass is always greener on the other side (;
Do you even play BG above or IB above T1 or why do you have no clue about both classes? :D

15% melee crit for 5 sec using a valuable tactic slot OR 10% all crit and strenght for 10sec for you and your oathfriend on a skill with low grudge cost

Elite training is an ok skill but often you can't choose who you parry or disrupt, so the effect is wasted e.g. on incoming autoattacks instead of CC, where you need it.

All tanks get toughness "for free", so what is your point here?

The "heal for you and your dp" is Feeding on Weakness? You should really start to play the class and test this powerful healing skill.

A true roleplayer would call you out on "better selfsustain then ib caus its an elve". No, BG doesn't have more sustain than IB.

Class balance wasn't made to mitigate pop issues on live either, from where are you pulling this?

The 10 sec super punt and the 5 sec exclude each other, you can't get both because either 2h or s&b. Furthermore 3/6 tank classes have 10 sec super punts when using 2h weapons.
Last edited by Sulorie on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#215 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:22 am

@mubbi
Ahah lol, toughess mastery tactic is a **** compared to ib core def tactics, camon be serious even fir the rest....it even require active buffing vs ib passive stuff..ET is use is to help the dark protector not for yourself. FoF is not good due how the crit reduction work, it work on"your" base chance to be crit, so if 3% then with fof is 1.5% , it is shitty the only reason you may want fof is for the armor buff but avoidance just better due guards and due how parry Negate dmg while armor dont. All tanks get their block/parry easy....bg seems damned to be relegated to the no corner tought xD

Btw balls, tough tactic buff your investiment it is NOT for free , to reach 1050 tough you need a pre tactic tough value of 724,5 ; 45% of this is 324 ,5+ 724,5 =1050.....

It is not 500 stats is 324 and if had alredy 724 points in it tied to renown/gear xD
Wanna talk about 500 buffing tactics? Go back on your hidden kobs man, with his runefang 600 ish self buff and leave this threads to bg players lol.

Yes green grass is alwas greener especially when you dont know how things in game work.
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Darosh
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Posts: 1197

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#216 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:02 pm

Sulorie wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 am Furthermore 4/6 tank classes have 10 sec super punts when using 2h weapons.
KotBS, Chosen, Blackguard ~ where is the fourth superpunt?

Do you mean SM BS tactic which offers but a little push while devastating your (group's) burst cycle?

I'd argue that, if the BG punt was changed to allow a better management of the modi (superpunt; low angle, and medium punt; medium-highish angle) would be a great opportunity to even the odds through adding or optimizing utility (= higher skillceiling).

I wouldn't mind handing BG mirror abilities and tactics, I'd be upset however, if I were to lose mine. Bringing classes up in order to even the odds > bringing classes down to even the odds.

Tho', in regards to the parrybuff, unless reworked to not stack (i.e.: ability [passive standalone] tactic) with ADM (in order to prevent ridiculous parry stacks (i.e.: RR, tactic, ability and gear), I don't see how it could be justified.

You pointy-ears might wanna brainstorm for a proposal, maybe find a way to turn ADM into either a triggered buff (so it can be shattered like oathbound) or a slightly reduced (to account for uptime and lack of hard counter) passive ADM that can be shared with your DP.

I'd highly suggest using the opportunity to spitball and spam proposals, as long as Peter and Dan are willing to endure the (balance) forums; as long we have active and engaged moderators ~ they come and go, ... it's a tiring endeavour for a plethora of reasons, I'd imagine.

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#217 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:12 pm

Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:02 pm
Sulorie wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 am Furthermore 4/6 tank classes have 10 sec super punts when using 2h weapons.
KotBS, Chosen, Blackguard ~ where is the fourth superpunt?
Typo, it has to be 3/6 as only those classes cooldown times are changed based on weapon. :)
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Tesq
Posts: 5704

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#218 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 pm

Sulorie wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:12 pm
Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:02 pm
Sulorie wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:31 am Furthermore 4/6 tank classes have 10 sec super punts when using 2h weapons.
KotBS, Chosen, Blackguard ~ where is the fourth superpunt?
Typo, it has to be 3/6 as only those classes cooldown times are changed based on weapon. :)
IB have it 10 sec default, even in s+b imo it can count as 4/6
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Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#219 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:50 pm

Tesq wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 pm
Sulorie wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:12 pm
Darosh wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:02 pm

KotBS, Chosen, Blackguard ~ where is the fourth superpunt?
Typo, it has to be 3/6 as only those classes cooldown times are changed based on weapon. :)
IB have it 10 sec default, even in s+b imo it can count as 4/6
When you consider cooldown and the ability to use it in every spec, yes. The range is not as far as the other 3 but still much larger than SM/BO. The advantage over BG is that you don't need full mechanic to use it properly. It is still quite effective, when you can use terrain.
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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#220 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:14 pm

RR70 you can go ADM and all Malice goodies - bar the KD. However, if you're in a group with a competent WE/Choppa/Chosen (ideally two of these), you can make do without a KD yourself (though I'd personally never give it up; who wants to rely on others for timed CC? =D).

FoF is good for surviving against melee trains - such as double slayer or slayer/<insert mdps>. Parry is next to useless when they pop their rampage skill. Against non-WS stacking PDPS classes (WL/IB/Engi), you can feel the amplified survivability when using FoF. Having said that, I do find myself using the M1 cleanse a lot, and speed proc weapon - coupled with Unstoppable Jugg - is essential when you are being focused, so that you can get out asap. You have to weave in and out of combat if you are a full Malice BG in group encounters.

Have the changes hurt 2h Malice? Sure, but it's not nearly as dire as it is made out to be by some posters. IB does seem to get everything within one spec, but its worth pointing out that their parry buff can be shattered (I do think that it could do with a CD/higher grudge prerequisite, but that's for another time). They don't have access to an AoE wounds debuff, or EB for quick 100 hate, or a bitch of a KB, or a +10% crit for all friends on multiple targets, etc.

OT - At the moment, I am using a Malice/Loath spec: all of Malice goodies, and FoF. Tactics are Rugged, Unstoppable, Hastened Doom & FWF. RR pure parry/d&d/FS/one or two in crit. I have access to full dom, conq & redeye - alternating when needed.
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