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Blackguard Builds

Black Guard, Sorceress, Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine
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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#101 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:22 pm

Almost

I don’t know of anyone elses opinion but I feel that Get Down is an underwhelming ability, I feel it can be fixed by renaming the ability to Kneel! Or something else Druchii-esq in nature, then I feel the class and every playstyle option available to it will be in a very good and strong place
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Garner
Posts: 157

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#102 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:24 pm

You are basing an abilities effectiveness off it's name?

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GodlessCrom
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Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#103 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:25 pm

100% certain that was a joke
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

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Kyran
Posts: 29

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#104 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:46 pm

In the end, it's hard to know if BG (or any other class actually) is good or not and wanted in parties or not...Because some guys say that BG is good, others that BG sucks, others are trolling, others are making private jokes, I mean how could this help us to pick a main class?

I don't want to play BG, or whatever other class and reach it to level 40, just to be kicked by every WB/6 man or whatever because my class is considered useless.

So, I don't care if it's the best tank or not, I just want to know if i'm gonna be wanted in RVR/SC/6 man etc...If not, i'm not gonna waste my time to lvl it to R40...

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peterthepan3
Posts: 6509

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#105 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:57 pm

1) If you play any tank well, you'll be wanted.

2) BG isn't great for WBs, is great for 1v1/solo, can be very effective in 6mans.

3) There are maybe 1/2 order premades that MAAAAYBE would require a BO over a BG. Otherwise, a BG can fill in as a DPS tank over the BO versus 99% of competition.
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Jaycub
Posts: 3130

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#106 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:03 am

Torquemadra wrote:
Jaycub wrote:BG is being overbuffed imo, and it doesn't even matter as long as morale pump exists even in its currently nerfed form BO and Chosen will be preferred even tho they are worse simply because they can actually use m4 regularly.
In what capacity? They were decent as they were, well designed but brought nothing to the party due to the bastardized classes of knight and chosen that went from 8/10 to 23/10 in the time between beta and knight inclusion on live.

Now with tweaking of grudge/hate to line up some fixes it's an epic class, everything has a purpose and all abilities are desirable. Is it as good as it's mirror? I would say pretty comparable in an overall sense, I don't see anything OP because it's all trade offs, you can't get everything and there is little low hanging fruit. If anything about it is to much I would be happy to revisit and balance further.

I will link beta bg abilities here later, interesting to see
Maybe I'm thinking a bit too much in the future with possible chosen nerfs, and more BG buffs. Right now if you took away morale pump I'd say all the tanks are on even footing, with BG having a slight edge after the punt changes. BG also is just better playstyle wise as all its trees are great, 2h/snb viable in a number of situations it's just a great class right now.


Torquemadra wrote:
Jaycub wrote:
2h full offensive build is full dom, subjugator 2h, full genesis and str tallies. (you will get raped by any good premade if you run this or hell even decent RDPS pugs esp BW's)
4 bl, 3 Dom, 2 merc and 3 genesis will get you 800 str, 450 ws, and 8k hps, I find it the best bang for my buck.
That sounds pretty nice, gearing tanks is all about finding that sweetspot in the tradeoff between survivability and damage hopefully I didn't come off as saying if you wanted to go offensive that's what you ran.
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Kyran
Posts: 29

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#107 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:09 am

1) If you play any tank well, you'll be wanted.

2) BG isn't great for WBs, is great for 1v1/solo, can be very effective in 6mans.

3) There are maybe 1/2 order premades that MAAAAYBE would require a BO over a BG. Otherwise, a BG can fill in as a DPS tank over the BO versus 99% of competition.
Hey!

1/OFC, but if they don't know me, why should they pick me over a BO or Chosen?

2/Ok, and as I really enjoy to play in WB's, that suck...BTW, what's the point with Mythic to create a 1v1 class in a massive RVR game?

3/ Order premades? In 6man you meant? So BG does as much damage as BO? That's not what I read everywhere on the forum. And that was my point : evryone says a thing and his contrary lol. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but it's hard to know who's right...

Well, so if I want to play a WB/SC tanks, I should roll a Chosen (but i'm afraid about that new aura system) or a BO, and forget about BG...

Thanks for your answer.

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3807

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#108 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:15 am

peterthepan3 wrote: 2) BG isn't great for WBs, is great for 1v1/solo, can be very effective in 6mans.
Why?

From what ive seen and played "competitive WB play" for tanks is just using hold the line or what have you till you build enough morale for raze to dump it all at once.

BG has AoE dmg options and can debuff targets in AoE why is that not sufficient for warband play?
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DokB
Posts: 538

Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#109 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:51 am

Kyran wrote:
1) If you play any tank well, you'll be wanted.

2) BG isn't great for WBs, is great for 1v1/solo, can be very effective in 6mans.

3) There are maybe 1/2 order premades that MAAAAYBE would require a BO over a BG. Otherwise, a BG can fill in as a DPS tank over the BO versus 99% of competition.
Hey!

1/OFC, but if they don't know me, why should they pick me over a BO or Chosen?

2/Ok, and as I really enjoy to play in WB's, that suck...BTW, what's the point with Mythic to create a 1v1 class in a massive RVR game?

3/ Order premades? In 6man you meant? So BG does as much damage as BO? That's not what I read everywhere on the forum. And that was my point : evryone says a thing and his contrary lol. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but it's hard to know who's right...

Well, so if I want to play a WB/SC tanks, I should roll a Chosen (but i'm afraid about that new aura system) or a BO, and forget about BG...

Thanks for your answer.
In regards to 3/ 2h BG vs SnB BO: The damage they deal out is extremely close at the moment, but BO can usually come out on top due to Skullthumper/THC. You then factor in Stat Steal/Chop Fasta/Red Frenzy/Morale Pump which are some really good group buffs. Weigh this against what BG offers the group that BO doesn’t: Crimson Death/Super Punt/Wounds Debuff/Singular Target buffs from Dark Protector. Then again, if you can get a proc of initiative stat steal this can act as a ghetto crimson death.

I feel BO and BG are now pretty close together in terms of viability for spots as DPS tanks, but if you look at the group benefits I think most would agree that BO is still more favourable. BG is much more survivable than BO however so BG can fit in both roles as either offensive or defensive, while BO should normally be run offensively due to the skillsets you have. Don’t get me wrong, BO can be run defensively and can work well but I just feel that not taking advantage of the great assist damage you can dish out as BO is a waste.
Last edited by DokB on Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GodlessCrom
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Re: Blackguard Builds

Post#110 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:00 pm

Worth noting that in terms of group utility, Black Guard also offers 50% outgoing heal debuff that is spammable, and also an aoe 10% block and parry strikethrough with 100% uptime. Decent against melee trains, since it removes parry from both tank and their guard, as well as block from the tank (combos with block strikethrough from 2her in what may be the only example of 2h innate strikethrough being useful, makes it easier to get Cc off on tanks) and so increases damage pressure on tank and their guard target.

Grabbing Soul Killer essentially means going full dps in terms of tactics if 2her since you have to skip out on both parry tactic and toughness increase tactic to grab it, so you might as well grab Unstoppable Fury for those moments when someone detaunts you by accident and you 1k+ crit them with Crimson Death anyways :D But if tanking as dps assist, high parry is generally required for guard damage, so parry tactic is essential IMO.
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!

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