Chosen VS KOTBS

Chosen, Magus, Marauder, Zealot

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kmark101
Posts: 326

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#31 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am

Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:08 am
You're basing your opinion purely on anectodal evidence coming from pug scs. Not a good start, but anyway...

The reason why Chosens (and Kotbs too) can deal an absolute **** of damage is due to their PSM scaling in odd ways when they reach around 1k - 1050 str. From some testing done with Chosens, every 50 strenght or so above 1k is basically a 40 to 50 increase in actual damage with Relentless (Or Myrmidia's Fury). Now, getting to 1050 Str obviously comes with a ton of downsides in other stats, so don't go around claiming they don't give up anything, because they do.

Arguably a meme deep Conquest kotb can actually deal more damage and be generally better with Myrmidia's Fury and Staggering Impact due to having reliable triple stacking armor debuffs in Concussive Runes + Demo Strike + Force of Opportunity/Stonebreaker (2600 to 3200 armor debuff) on classes that are S tier for smallscale. Added benefit is the fact that triple armor debuffing also increases everyone's damage by an incredible amount, unlike the Chosen + Sorc meme setup that only helps those two.

By the way, Auras and Glean Magic don't stack since both are Abilities. If you want to triple stack spirit debuffs you need Shadow of Disaster (tactic) + Aura (ability) + Zealot m1 (morale)
My evidence is not anecdotal, we are on the receiving end of this every day. There is no realistic "triple armor debuff", its a regular armor debuff + m1 at the very best. Next you probably need screenshots, etc.. just to argue. How about you go and try it yourself since you haven't experienced this obviously.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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Detangler
Posts: 384

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#32 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:06 am

Spoiler:
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:08 am
You're basing your opinion purely on anectodal evidence coming from pug scs. Not a good start, but anyway...

The reason why Chosens (and Kotbs too) can deal an absolute **** of damage is due to their PSM scaling in odd ways when they reach around 1k - 1050 str. From some testing done with Chosens, every 50 strenght or so above 1k is basically a 40 to 50 increase in actual damage with Relentless (Or Myrmidia's Fury). Now, getting to 1050 Str obviously comes with a ton of downsides in other stats, so don't go around claiming they don't give up anything, because they do.

Arguably a meme deep Conquest kotb can actually deal more damage and be generally better with Myrmidia's Fury and Staggering Impact due to having reliable triple stacking armor debuffs in Concussive Runes + Demo Strike + Force of Opportunity/Stonebreaker (2600 to 3200 armor debuff) on classes that are S tier for smallscale. Added benefit is the fact that triple armor debuffing also increases everyone's damage by an incredible amount, unlike the Chosen + Sorc meme setup that only helps those two.

By the way, Auras and Glean Magic don't stack since both are Abilities. If you want to triple stack spirit debuffs you need Shadow of Disaster (tactic) + Aura (ability) + Zealot m1 (morale)
My evidence is not anecdotal, we are on the receiving end of this every day. There is no realistic "triple armor debuff", its a regular armor debuff + m1 at the very best. Next you probably need screenshots, etc.. just to argue. How about you go and try it yourself since you haven't experienced this obviously.
[/quote]

"My evidence is not anecdotal" yet you cite anecdotal evidence."

"Next you probably need screenshots..."

Yes, please post them. I'd like to see the string of lucky crits and the lack of resists on the target cause someone didn't spec into futile strikes.
Detangler - 40 DoK armor talisman farmer
Deetangler - 40/82 Chosen tankbot/murdermachine
Deeetangler - 40/6x Zealot healbot/talisman factory
Detanglerr - 40/xx Witch Elf boredom killer
Deetsquiggy - 40/x Squig butcherbot
Tangler - baby Slayer

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Nefarian78
Posts: 411

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#33 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:10 am

kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
My evidence is not anecdotal, we are on the receiving end of this every day.
"Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes: evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony."

Clearly concrete proof right there.
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
There is no realistic "triple armor debuff", its a regular armor debuff + m1 at the very best.
Clearly, triple armor debuff stacking isn't a thing. It's not like since sov meta the only way to get kills in 6v6 is to triple stack armor debuffs, AP drains and then dump morales since the dps have 10k wounds and shield dok/WPs are broken and heal through healdebuffs.
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
How about you go and try it yourself since you haven't experienced this obviously.
Considering i play both sides in 6v6 and 24v24 and i've explained to you how the PSM scaling behaves with Relentless/Myrmidia's Fury and CH/Kotbs, i'd say i have enough experience on the topic. Maybe go and actually test the PSM for yourself before making a fool of yourself again.

But clearly, someone that has never done a premade 6v6 or competitive 24v24 in their entire time on RoR knows best.
Vorak - Capulet

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adamthelc
Posts: 827

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#34 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:41 am

You relying on your knights to juice out all of their offensive stats and take advantage of those triple armor debuffs to win those 24v24s for you?

Seems like a stupid thing to argue about.

If people want to believe knight damage is better than a chosens, let them think that.

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kmark101
Posts: 326

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#35 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:19 am

Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:10 am
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
My evidence is not anecdotal, we are on the receiving end of this every day.
"Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes: evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony."

Clearly concrete proof right there.
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
There is no realistic "triple armor debuff", its a regular armor debuff + m1 at the very best.
Clearly, triple armor debuff stacking isn't a thing. It's not like since sov meta the only way to get kills in 6v6 is to triple stack armor debuffs, AP drains and then dump morales since the dps have 10k wounds and shield dok/WPs are broken and heal through healdebuffs.
kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:39 am
How about you go and try it yourself since you haven't experienced this obviously.
Considering i play both sides in 6v6 and 24v24 and i've explained to you how the PSM scaling behaves with Relentless/Myrmidia's Fury and CH/Kotbs, i'd say i have enough experience on the topic. Maybe go and actually test the PSM for yourself before making a fool of yourself again.

But clearly, someone that has never done a premade 6v6 or competitive 24v24 in their entire time on RoR knows best.

Except it's not testimony but actual data collected over a period of time. But keep exaggerating, like you did in the IB thread a few weeks ago. Btw still waiting there for the name of your IB to back up your heavy words. Yes, you don't have any. Like you don't have a clue here either. Btw who is your knight and/or chosen? Let's see your mighty experience.

Premade 6v6 is not everything, it's not the be all end all of the game. But if you consider city 24v24 competitive enough, you can see there the huge damage difference between destro tanks and order tanks, partly because of chosen dps potential. Again, before you attack this fact, you can see it in every single city instance in the last 2 months.

But why do I argue with you, think what you want.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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Nefarian78
Posts: 411

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#36 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:18 am

kmark101 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:19 am
Except it's not testimony but actual data collected over a period of time. But keep exaggerating, like you did in the IB thread a few weeks ago. Btw still waiting there for the name of your IB to back up your heavy words. Yes, you don't have any. Like you don't have a clue here either. Btw who is your knight and/or chosen? Let's see your mighty experience.

Premade 6v6 is not everything, it's not the be all end all of the game. But if you consider city 24v24 competitive enough, you can see there the huge damage difference between destro tanks and order tanks, partly because of chosen dps potential. Again, before you attack this fact, you can see it in every single city instance in the last 2 months.

But why do I argue with you, think what you want.
By actual data you mean seeing someone (In this case 2 Chosen players) top damage in a pug sc. Clearly, if two Chosens that probably used Dreadful Agony top the damage board in a pug scenario, that's ultimate proof that the class is OP.

Once again, i've explained how and why Chosens and Kotbs can deal a ton of damage. Go and test it.
Spoiler:
Since you so obviously have no idea what you're talking about, Gryw, i'll post two screenshots in this spoiler showing how unexperienced you are with your IB. You claimed IBs have the lowest damage in the game and that they're trash for everything. These two screenshots prove otherwise.

VS Dachosen Wb:
Image

VS Phalanx 6-12man + pugs:
Image

This is using an Axe Slam IB with a 2h. Dropped Axe Slam every other drop to ensure fullwipe each time and duoing healers with a Slayer. Turns out IBs aren't as weak as you and the other zerglings in that thread think. Who would have thought, uh?

Go play premade 6v6. Step out of the 200man zerg you ride the entire time. Learn how the game works when it's played like it was supposed to be played, in a group with people that know what they're doing. Or don't, and keep on being a zergling that has no idea how their class works. I really don't give a single crap, but don't go around spreading misinformation tainted by your extreme bias and lack of knowledge.
Vorak - Capulet

nonfactor
Posts: 10

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#37 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:46 am

Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:18 am
Go play premade 6v6. Step out of the 200man zerg you ride the entire time. Learn how the game works when it's played like it was supposed to be played, in a group with people that know what they're doing. Or don't, and keep on being a zergling that has no idea how their class works. I really don't give a single crap, but don't go around spreading misinformation tainted by your extreme bias and lack of knowledge.
Preach.

nocturnalguest
Posts: 144

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#38 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:28 am

So as a 2h axe slam IB you were not able to outdmg both snb chosen and BO? Cool

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kmark101
Posts: 326

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#39 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:46 am

Nefarian78 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:18 am

Since you so obviously have no idea what you're talking about, Gryw, i'll post two screenshots in this spoiler showing how unexperienced you are with your IB. You claimed IBs have the lowest damage in the game and that they're trash for everything. These two screenshots prove otherwise.

This is using an Axe Slam IB with a 2h. Dropped Axe Slam every other drop to ensure fullwipe each time and duoing healers with a Slayer. Turns out IBs aren't as weak as you and the other zerglings in that thread think. Who would have thought, uh?

Go play premade 6v6. Step out of the 200man zerg you ride the entire time. Learn how the game works when it's played like it was supposed to be played, in a group with people that know what they're doing. Or don't, and keep on being a zergling that has no idea how their class works. I really don't give a single crap, but don't go around spreading misinformation tainted by your extreme bias and lack of knowledge.
Oh c'mon, way to go personal when you have nothing else to back up your crap...

Oh and now I claimed what? :D stop giving words into my mouth we both know that I never said. Btw you seriously posted axe slam screenshots as proof that the class need no tweaks? :lol: (even on that screenshot you got outdamaged by a chosen from the losing side... you know, in a thread that is about chosen dps that you are trying to deny)...

Rest of your post is useless as you have no clue how/who/what I play, but trying to lecture without any information fits into your style perfectly well.
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

User avatar
kmark101
Posts: 326

Re: Chosen VS KOTBS

Post#40 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:50 am

nocturnalguest wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:28 am
So as a 2h axe slam IB you were not able to outdmg both snb chosen and BO? Cool

Been wondering about the same, dude just provided the perfect screenshots about the exact reasons and points of these threads... :lol:
Gryyw - Ironbreaker

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