Recent Topics

Ads

[Magus] Useless in end game content?

Chosen, Magus, Marauder, Zealot

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Forum rules
Before posting on this forum, be sure to read the Terms of Use
Your topic MUST start with your class name between hooks (IE : [Shaman] blablabla)
User avatar
avalus
Posts: 24

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#11 » Fri May 22, 2020 1:17 pm

Tankbeardz wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:59 pm
Telen wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:50 pm
Problem for magus is they got cucked by GttC
Nah..its the pet.

Ditto.

Enraptured Doomweaver Image Chaos Sorcerer of 𝕋̳̠ͫ𝕫̫͕̥̞͂̃𝕖̴̡̠̮͙̈̏𝕖̻̭͉ͥ̉̐̀̈́𝕟̘͛͒̀̓͊ͨ𝕥̮̦̦̾̄͟𝕔̖͓̂𝕙̤ | RR82 |

Spoiler:
Retired characters :

Notsure | Carnal
Hiasakite | Heosphoros

Ads
Starx
Posts: 279

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#12 » Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm

Zxul wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:00 am
Starx wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:36 am
Magus just has really bad AoE when you don't have a chokepoint, because you start having to use filler skills and your ground target AoE's aren't even a fraction as potent. Magus by far, its not even a question have the absolute WORST filler AoE skill(s) of any destro DPS class. If you are getting out dps'ed by a magus, idc what class you are on it's because you are bad or you aren't trying. Sure I've beaten really good sorcs and mara's in one off cities where I cheesed the **** out of pve mobs and sweated hard but 9/10 if those guys are trying im gonna be doing 20-30% less damage every time.
Btw why magus filler skills are considered so bad? Been quite some time since I played mine, but I do remember Gleam for spirit debuff+Lash spam working very fine for filler aoe in daem/change spec.
Filler AoE skill is a 40ft cone, that does pitiful damage considering it's on a psuedo light armor caster class, with no mobility, no snare/root breaks, etc... That also means magus has to play positionally like its a choppa because unlike other ranged classes with spammable 65ft/80ft AoE's we are in the cuckshed.

Think about how fights in city play out, ground AoE's like mist are a giant meme that wont be hitting hardly anyone after a few seconds, glean has an absolutely pitiful radius. After you use your 3 AoE dots its... mist (or not if you are rift) and tornado. Then its just tentacle filler w/ AT because warpfire is literal dogshit. Also reminder that glean's spirit debuff effectiveness is cut in half because chosens exist.

Class performs amazing in choke points when ppl are actually tight enough for our aoe dots to land and ppl to be stuck in mist etc... so we wont ever in a million years get the buffs we need to be good in city because that would make taking keeps and forts even more cancer than it already is.

Should also say here that the TTK in city is actually really low, a lot of time we dont get a whole lot of value out of the dots we are using. Raw damage is king in city, and while tornado is a nice new addition that deals damage I guess comparable to PoS (imagine playing sorc and your best ability is PoS L M A O) its still a ground aoe with a 15 sec cd. Other than that it's tentacle.

Omegus
Posts: 362

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#13 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:25 pm

drmordread wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:17 pm
Right now, no matter what, there only two ranged classes wanted in destro WB, which makes Destro more efficient, as Order only has one.

Unless you are a Sorc, or a Squig Herder they don't want you. And if you play a Squig Herder they only want you if you are Melee specced.

Sorc has that amazing crit bonus (as does the BW on Order), that always makes it desired. it can do AoE, and Single Target (ST), better than anything else on Destro. It is mobile, and easy to play, (too easy imo).

In my opinion, the Magus is the premiere Ranged. Has long distance (longer than sorc and way longer than MSqH), can scoot in drop killer AoE, and scoot back to its flamer, has decent cc (very few magus know to play this). Rift is awesome, but only comes into its own in stage 3 of city. A wb leader that knows what they are doing will always have one to two magus in their city wb.

Consider your self lucky though. At least you dont play a Witch Elf. No one wants those, even in the lakes.
I see we're still playing that game where we pretend ASW in the melee train aren't horrifically scary and very effective and currently order's best tool in city (it does the ST train far better than destro does).
Zomega: RR8x Zealot
Addons: CityFix v1.0

MedV
Posts: 175

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#14 » Fri May 22, 2020 9:33 pm

avalus wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:17 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:59 pm
Telen wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:50 pm
Problem for magus is they got cucked by GttC
Nah..its the pet.

Ditto.
Yup... just give us a loner tactic. I don't care if we still suck in every game mode, have no really good abilities that dont relate to choke points. Im just tired of having to summon pet waste gcd and keep summoning while chasing. Tired of it dying, tired of the 5 ft radius of the pink horror. Its just bad design in this type of evolved game.
Honestly too many to count

User avatar
Kwatchi
Posts: 95

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#15 » Sat May 23, 2020 12:50 am

Omegus wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 2:25 pm
I see we're still playing that game where we pretend ASW in the melee train aren't horrifically scary and very effective and currently order's best tool in city (it does the ST train far better than destro does).
:o



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Slayer - 40/7x
Archmage - 40/7x

User avatar
Crumbs
Posts: 150

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#16 » Mon May 25, 2020 2:05 am

nothing will fix subpar players just a reminder, keep sharpening skills and always surround yourself with good players on comms.

And yes pet is the biggest crutch, blue horror/flame turret need much higher wounds or some kind of an invulnerability cooldown. It has 0 defenses except vs ranged, pointless
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/65

geezereur
Posts: 373

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#17 » Mon May 25, 2020 3:50 am

Magus and Eng pets should get high damage reduction vs Aoe damage.

User avatar
Crumbs
Posts: 150

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#18 » Mon May 25, 2020 5:43 am

Starx wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:40 pm
Zxul wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:00 am
Starx wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:36 am
Magus just has really bad AoE when you don't have a chokepoint, because you start having to use filler skills and your ground target AoE's aren't even a fraction as potent. Magus by far, its not even a question have the absolute WORST filler AoE skill(s) of any destro DPS class. If you are getting out dps'ed by a magus, idc what class you are on it's because you are bad or you aren't trying. Sure I've beaten really good sorcs and mara's in one off cities where I cheesed the **** out of pve mobs and sweated hard but 9/10 if those guys are trying im gonna be doing 20-30% less damage every time.
Btw why magus filler skills are considered so bad? Been quite some time since I played mine, but I do remember Gleam for spirit debuff+Lash spam working very fine for filler aoe in daem/change spec.
Filler AoE skill is a 40ft cone, that does pitiful damage considering it's on a psuedo light armor caster class, with no mobility, no snare/root breaks, etc... That also means magus has to play positionally like its a choppa because unlike other ranged classes with spammable 65ft/80ft AoE's we are in the cuckshed.

Think about how fights in city play out, ground AoE's like mist are a giant meme that wont be hitting hardly anyone after a few seconds, glean has an absolutely pitiful radius. After you use your 3 AoE dots its... mist (or not if you are rift) and tornado. Then its just tentacle filler w/ AT because warpfire is literal dogshit. Also reminder that glean's spirit debuff effectiveness is cut in half because chosens exist.

Class performs amazing in choke points when ppl are actually tight enough for our aoe dots to land and ppl to be stuck in mist etc... so we wont ever in a million years get the buffs we need to be good in city because that would make taking keeps and forts even more cancer than it already is.

Should also say here that the TTK in city is actually really low, a lot of time we dont get a whole lot of value out of the dots we are using. Raw damage is king in city, and while tornado is a nice new addition that deals damage I guess comparable to PoS (imagine playing sorc and your best ability is PoS L M A O) its still a ground aoe with a 15 sec cd. Other than that it's tentacle.
lash isnt filler, you dont just gleam and lash unless everything is low enough to cleave, always keep a layers of aoe dots before moving onto it, chosen is a bonus because it will be debuffing your elemental aoe, infernal scream, none of these dots are effective alone understand, infernal scream is the strongest aoe dot you have and has crit damage multipliers with tactic, which is mandatory anyways.

Lash can reach 60ft with blue horror, so can infernal, so theres that. Or you can opt to have mobility and keep the range at 40ft, you've got the options for the situation.

And although firestorm is good, lash is a better ability for sustained aoe pressure. And you can use both for aoe spike, eg. cast firestorm, when the second or the third tick is about to land, start the lash spam, both ticks will land at once dealing at least 2k+ damage spike. 2k instant damage aoe is not a small number this is mdps choppas/slayer aoe crits, and with sov crit damage bonus itll be closer to 3k spikes occasionally. Now imagine landing that with glean, pandaemonium, infernal, mist, and the aoe on self ability, and m2 also ticking off.... You do the math thats basically their entire healthbar in 2-3sec after setup. With your aoe alone, the trick is being able to manage to land that all with x8 stacks. Magus is all about dot stacking and then timestamping all your big burst at once in coordination with your team. Yeah its the hardest class to do it with, but the most rewarding if you pull it off successfully, its not about placing mist first, then stacking half your dots, then attempting to cleave, these are all CDs you layer/timestamp with, at the correct time.
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/65

Ads
Starx
Posts: 279

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#19 » Mon May 25, 2020 10:22 am

Im using filler as a WoW term, just means the skill you end up using after your cooldowns not necessarily a bad skill. I guess I've been treating city like a WoW raid playing the scoreboard like its the DPS meter anyways. Being in the guild I am with pretty good city alliance warbands coming in as a magus I at least had a lot of pressure to perform as well as possible and scoreboard is the only real marker of that. And that also gives me good oppurtunities to play with good players and weigh my damage against theirs. And ya there are a lot of washed up big names out there you can beat on magus, but there are a few good ppl I play with a lot that will just consistently do 20-30% more damage on a class like sorc unless something amazing happens like me getting pulled into order spawn.

Recently I was testing out blue horror, before I pretty much only used flamer for it's 50ft rather than 25ft buff range for the more mobile fights in city. Because I found that the bonuses flamer gives besides the 20% damage to be pretty lackluster ultimately... like it doesn't actually increase the value scoreboard wise from infernal wave at all due to IF having the cooldown it does, and the faster ticks or glean/pand really aren't that beneficial imo due to these skills just having very low dmg to begin with I think you end up with more scoreboard using these as sparingly as possible only in situations where you are at least going to hit X people with the rather small 20ft radius.

Going back to testing out blue horror... I wanted to see if I could "snapshot" a larger mist at the beginning of a fight on defense. However I found that blue horror doesn't work on mist.... or tornado... and probably not even on glean or pandemonium. There is a bug report up on this hopefully its not intended but who knows...

Either way im pretty sure good use of blue horror, that is using it in situations where you are going to be able to be stationary and keep the pet alive for a bit is going to be key to really push scoreboard city damage higher.

Regardless I REALLY wish they would do away with the 20% damage buff from pets and just give that extra damage to magus across the board without need for pet. Demons will still have their flavor buffs and play an important role but wouldn't be the ball and chain they are now... And I like said above we are really only 20-30% behind good dps classes atm and that gap would close pretty fast if we didn't rely on the pet for nearly a quarter of our raw damage.

User avatar
Crumbs
Posts: 150

Re: [Magus] Useless in end game content?

Post#20 » Mon May 25, 2020 11:12 am

Starx wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 10:22 am
Im using filler as a WoW term, just means the skill you end up using after your cooldowns not necessarily a bad skill. I guess I've been treating city like a WoW raid playing the scoreboard like its the DPS meter anyways. Being in the guild I am with pretty good city alliance warbands coming in as a magus I at least had a lot of pressure to perform as well as possible and scoreboard is the only real marker of that. And that also gives me good oppurtunities to play with good players and weigh my damage against theirs. And ya there are a lot of washed up big names out there you can beat on magus, but there are a few good ppl I play with a lot that will just consistently do 20-30% more damage on a class like sorc unless something amazing happens like me getting pulled into order spawn.

Recently I was testing out blue horror, before I pretty much only used flamer for it's 50ft rather than 25ft buff range for the more mobile fights in city. Because I found that the bonuses flamer gives besides the 20% damage to be pretty lackluster ultimately... like it doesn't actually increase the value scoreboard wise from infernal wave at all due to IF having the cooldown it does, and the faster ticks or glean/pand really aren't that beneficial imo due to these skills just having very low dmg to begin with I think you end up with more scoreboard using these as sparingly as possible only in situations where you are at least going to hit X people with the rather small 20ft radius.

Going back to testing out blue horror... I wanted to see if I could "snapshot" a larger mist at the beginning of a fight on defense. However I found that blue horror doesn't work on mist.... or tornado... and probably not even on glean or pandemonium. There is a bug report up on this hopefully its not intended but who knows...

Either way im pretty sure good use of blue horror, that is using it in situations where you are going to be able to be stationary and keep the pet alive for a bit is going to be key to really push scoreboard city damage higher.

Regardless I REALLY wish they would do away with the 20% damage buff from pets and just give that extra damage to magus across the board without need for pet. Demons will still have their flavor buffs and play an important role but wouldn't be the ball and chain they are now... And I like said above we are really only 20-30% behind good dps classes atm and that gap would close pretty fast if we didn't rely on the pet for nearly a quarter of our raw damage.
Well here some info to help update your gameplay.

-We build a total of 40% damage bonus from stacks.

-Flamer allows more mobility than you think, you build stacks within 40ft, and you won't lose them until you're further than 80ft from it.

-yes Infernal will not last as long because it's doing 40% more damage per tick when using flamer, it's the very last dot you use before moving to DD, this means it even comes after mist and the self pboe.

- using dots "sparingly" is counter productive to the entire playstyle, I layed out how they are to be used in the last post.
-Neither are we only to use dots, we actively use a lot of buttons including manually activating pet abilities to maximise

-blue horror intentionally does not work with those abilities, same for engi.

-use turret range add-on and ensure x8 damage above everything else

- we rely on our pet for closer to half of our damage, this is how important it is to keep pet alive and maintain stacks by placing it in safe places, kind of why blue horror is out of the question for damage dealing because it's always going to be positioned nearby to us and will be killed when a pebble is thrown at it. Blue horror is best for funneling if you're also planning on eating ranged damage. Not much else.

Numbers in city don't mean much, it's about KBs, same for any sc or whatnot. So we set our rotation and longer CDs and morale and co-ordinate with warband morale drop to ensure that. And it takes a real master magus to pull off these rotations flawlessly
Mekanik [engi] 40/85
[magus] 40/65

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest