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[MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

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Twohandernoob
Posts: 149

Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#11 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:55 pm

Starx wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:41 pm
No because im not autistic :^)

but wont change how I feel about it, im just not gonna blow up on someone in game about it.
Well then that's totally fine! :lol:

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porkstar
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#12 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:18 pm

Starx wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:43 pm
Twohandernoob wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:09 am
Your problem isn't the magus. It's the toxicity!

You have to remember that when they're throwing insults after losing it's all projection. It's their sub-conscience talking about themselves. I mean to even get that worked up about it your ego has to be tied up with your toons MMR. Think about that for a minute.

I'm pretty sure I've not seen actual elite players throw insults. They either don't que or accept the randomness of PUG ranked games. They may talk about sub optimal setups but it's all matter of fact rather than toxic.
Not really. If im queing ranked 6v6 I can pretty much count on 1 hand the amount of maguses id be comfortable playing with. And id just rather have them playing sorc or ranged squig because these are extremely good players getting everything out of magus, they could be doing so much better if all that effort was just on a better class.

Magus also has to be specced right to even come close to being useful in 6v6, positioning has to be perfect otherwise your cucking your entire group out of your tanks damage which is more important than most people think in 6v6 (if you tank is having to peel 24/7 for you, your team is losing like up to 20% of their damage on whoever you are focusing). But the flipside is the other team is just going to UNGA BUNGA the magus because its one of those classes that loses a ton of its damage potential if its sat on (like most rdps to some degree which is why every 6v6 tourney is double mdps 2-2-2), but magus is especially hurt by this because of their awful pet mechanic and so much of their potential being tied directly to it.
I feel those words in my soul after a bit of ranked with magus and basically knew all that to be true initially. Maybe it was selfish of me to want to test my skill with the magus but I was still a bit taken aback by the backlash especially in a testing phase xD. I understand that with people to whom a rating is very important, they will get upset at being gimped.
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Darks63
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#13 » Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:13 pm

Magus in small scale seems like a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. If you go havoc glass cannon you have good damage but you melt if any focus comes your way. If you spec panzer magus you can survive focus but you hurt your damage potential and are a drag on your group.
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avalus
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#14 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:26 am

Being a Havoc specced Magus myself, the experience of yesterday evening Coolwave described is very much relatable.

I won't lie, it was pretty frustrating at times to a point where it almost felt discouraging to represent a liability for your team, but at the same time, I had a great time and there were some epic fights nonetheless because it was very challenging and that's where you learn the most, not only about your class but also acquire more game knowledge IMO.

It just sucks that you well know that your team is going to have to overcompensate because of you...


Starx wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:43 pm
Twohandernoob wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:09 am
Your problem isn't the magus. It's the toxicity!

You have to remember that when they're throwing insults after losing it's all projection. It's their sub-conscience talking about themselves. I mean to even get that worked up about it your ego has to be tied up with your toons MMR. Think about that for a minute.

I'm pretty sure I've not seen actual elite players throw insults. They either don't que or accept the randomness of PUG ranked games. They may talk about sub optimal setups but it's all matter of fact rather than toxic.
Not really. If im queing ranked 6v6 I can pretty much count on 1 hand the amount of maguses id be comfortable playing with. And id just rather have them playing sorc or ranged squig because these are extremely good players getting everything out of magus, they could be doing so much better if all that effort was just on a better class.

Magus also has to be specced right to even come close to being useful in 6v6, positioning has to be perfect otherwise your cucking your entire group out of your tanks damage which is more important than most people think in 6v6 (if you tank is having to peel 24/7 for you, your team is losing like up to 20% of their damage on whoever you are focusing). But the flipside is the other team is just going to UNGA BUNGA the magus because its one of those classes that loses a ton of its damage potential if its sat on (like most rdps to some degree which is why every 6v6 tourney is double mdps 2-2-2), but magus is especially hurt by this because of their awful pet mechanic and so much of their potential being tied directly to it.

Basically, Starx said it all, at least that's what I've gathered / supposed in hindsight at the end of the event.

I don't know if I'm going to retry ranked scenarios, at least not until I get my Sov gear, change my spec and get more experience,
you definitely won't see me there as a Havoc Magus anymore.

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Nidwin
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#15 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:19 am

Starx wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:41 pm
No because im not autistic :^)

but wont change how I feel about it, im just not gonna blow up on someone in game about it.
Don't worry and just go on telling Magus players they shouldn't queue for ranked scenarios and everything should be OK.

The other scenarios are way more fun to play anyway, especially on a Magus in a pure PUG environment. :mrgreen:
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Arbich
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#16 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:18 am

Hm.. surprising. With match making now working the way that you get at least one range dps in the enemy team, Magus should be quite good.

Even before with old match making I found solo ranked with engis (Magus mirror) as teammates quite good. And maw of madness is only a little bit worse than caledor woods for range, as most of the fights are in the middle anyway.

A bit of saltiness is an integral part of solo ranked, I would say. And if your teammates blame you for losing, you can also blame them. It's the tanks job after all to provide substantial CC so that the enemy melee can't catch you that easy.

Don't give up that easily and go back to farming poor pugs from 500+ft distance. Take the challenge and continue queuing solo ranked! :D
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avalus
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#17 » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:15 pm

Arbich wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:18 am
Hm.. surprising. With match making now working the way that you get at least one range dps in the enemy team, Magus should be quite good.

Even before with old match making I found solo ranked with engis (Magus mirror) as teammates quite good. And maw of madness is only a little bit worse than caledor woods for range, as most of the fights are in the middle anyway.

A bit of saltiness is an integral part of solo ranked, I would say. And if your teammates blame you for losing, you can also blame them. It's the tanks job after all to provide substantial CC so that the enemy melee can't catch you that easy.

Don't give up that easily and go back to farming poor pugs from 500+ft distance. Take the challenge and continue queuing solo ranked! :D

Don't get me wrong, being a Havoc Magus in ranked isn't literally being a useless dead weight all the time, there was a majority of matches where we would own the other team or at least manage to get the upper hand to snatch a victory.
At the end of the evening, I had more victories than defeats so that does mean it's not that horrid.
It's just that, even on a win, if you see that the BOrc has more damage/kills while still providing effective tank utility, you know there's something wrong.

And once you get higher MMR and start getting into "higher-tier" match-ups, things steeply get difficult.
And that's when it really feels being sub-par to other DPS, as Starx said, where it seems that you'd offer way more to your team if you simply were another class.


As for "It's the tanks job after all to provide substantial CC so that the enemy melee can't catch you that easy", sure.

It's their job to provide reliable CC/guarding to ensure you stay up but still, you are definitely the primary target (the "weak link") and you don't seem to have the ability to be able to quickly reverse the pressure (if your tank is constantly babysitting you, he isn't nagging the adversary and the pressure stays on your team) as you can't burst, and even if the tank does his job right,
eventually (Armor buff shattering on CD + Armor debuff -> oopsie), you'll go down and your team will start crumbling.


About for the saltiness, I totally agree with you, ofc there's definitely a limit to where you can go in sheer uncalled for agressiveness,
but to me, "toxicity" (I prefer the term "banter", as long as it stays as such) has always been a component of competitive play.
I'd say, grow some skin and take it all with a pinch of salt ( :mrgreen: ), you're not playing Hello Kitty Online after all.

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porkstar
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#18 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:47 pm

When another avenue for top-tier gear (likely) soon becomes available for 6v6 friendly classes, it functionally makes top-tier gear less available overall for weaker 6v6 classes *cough cough magus/engie*. More discussion will happen I'm sure once gear is released.

It's been stated in the past that this game isn't balanced around 6v6 so providing top-tier gear for 6v6 seems to be at least a slight departure from that ethos. I think it's great though, especially for the inverse situation when a class is acceptable/good for a 6v6 but less useful/desired in city WB. Also, functional ranked scs is just objectively a great addition to the game.

I wonder if overall class balance/adjusting will continue based around warband scale (city). For classes that may be realistically un-fixable for 6v6, they could be adjusted to be slightly better at WB scale.
Last edited by porkstar on Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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R3xz
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Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#19 » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:30 pm

^ regarding that, I personally think WB play is all but an extension of 6vs6 so I do hope AOE cap get adjusted again so that it become more of a compromise between 24 man and 6 man. ST damage doesn't compare to the damage output ot AoE spec that can hit up to 24 enemies, so most ST classes get gimped in WB fights in term of damage output and putting the pressure on multiple targets. Perhaps ST spec should include some weaker aoe components or more utilities if the AoE meta continues to be the way it is.

That's all kinda offtopic though.

As far as magus is concerned, I do think the class could use some more love to reduce it's clunkiness and effectiveness as a ranged caster class. ST spec provide little to no utility/survivability, changing tree is kinda ass with DoTs being cleansable, and rift spec has become somewhat of a meme.

Starx
Posts: 279

Re: [MAGUS: Havoc] Ranked SC WIth Ranged Testing

Post#20 » Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:38 am

R3xz wrote:
Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:30 pm
^ regarding that, I personally think WB play is all but an extension of 6vs6 so I do hope AOE cap get adjusted again so that it become more of a compromise between 24 man and 6 man. ST damage doesn't compare to the damage output ot AoE spec that can hit up to 24 enemies, so most ST classes get gimped in WB fights in term of damage output and putting the pressure on multiple targets. Perhaps ST spec should include some weaker aoe components or more utilities if the AoE meta continues to be the way it is.

That's all kinda offtopic though.

As far as magus is concerned, I do think the class could use some more love to reduce it's clunkiness and effectiveness as a ranged caster class. ST spec provide little to no utility/survivability, changing tree is kinda ass with DoTs being cleansable, and rift spec has become somewhat of a meme.
Calling magus a ranged caster class is kinda funny in terms of how it plays in city. Magus doesn't have any medium or long range AoE filler skills, which forces it to play melee range to get the most out of the class. Once you cast pandamonium, glean magic, and drop tornado and/or mist if you specced it you now have no AoE skills that go longer than 40ft and you might only be 3-4 seconds into a fight at that point...

You basically need to play like a MDPS, and fill these void GCD's w/ tentacle whip, AT, and Infernal wave.

This also brings out a gigantic weakness of the magus class and that is how much of our damage and utility is tied to our pet, which now we have to lug around as a psuedo MDPS. Imagine playing slayer where every time you moved 30ft you have to waste a gcd to otherwise you do 80% of your full damage and now all your abilities make you stop moving to cast them AND even if you dont move your pet dies in 2 seconds to random AoE...

its a nightmare and besides the pet problems...

Rift is a winmore/losemore ability in city and needs to be prioritizing the 6 farthest people instead of the 6 closest or it will forever be that
Abilities like tentacle should be doing way more damage considering we are a cloth caster having to put ourselves in melee range to even use it
Warpfire doing less damage than tentacle while being a channeled ability with less range that immobilizes us and is our LEVEL 40 ability is a joke
Seed of chaos needs to be totally reworked into something useful
Resummon needs to be off the GCD

Magus needs to be a utility/support caster that does less damage than sorc but brings things warbands want. Right now its doing way less damage than sorc, and bringing basically nothing to the table in terms of utility. No one cares about 5 sec stagger, rift, or stronger version of chosen spirit debuff. And realistically that all we bring. At least engineer has pierce defenses, AoE 1k armor debuff w/ the right gear which is absolutely **** insane, 25% disorient, usefull m3 for ST focus and getting their ST channel at level 40 instead of an ability you dont even put on your hotbar. And that class is still BAD let that sink in.

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