Rework sava/brut Mara.

[larsulu]

As the thread title i wanna give you my thoughts why sava/brut Mara should be reworked/unnerfed:

Thunderous blow: this ability has been nerfed to the ground ( from 152 debuff value/5 sec cd / 6 savagery points to 95 debuff value/10 secs cd / 13 savagery points ) and I would ask you to bring it back as before.
My reason are:
1. It was a good nerf when conqueror was the highest set in the game. Not now with the new set with high wounds.
2. Kotb/chosen got a superior wound debuff ( and is aoe ). Slayer as well ( single )
3. Is cleansable so 5 cd sec is better
4. Doesn’t get piercing armor tactic bonus.

Draining swipe ( target enemy regain ap 50% more slowly ) 10 sec cd and only 5 sec duration.
This is a really useless ability ( weak and useless debuff with no damage ) so you could rework it with a “better ap debuff “ or change it with another debuff.
It could be a “drastic decision “ but you could move draining swipe into monstro ( as aoe debuff for being more useful in warband fights ) and replace wave of mutilation dot into savagery ( it could
Be single ability )

This it could be a good balance to compensate high mobility/high damage from
White lions/shadow warrior melee.
Obviously Mara doesn’t need burst damage, it needs only a better debuffs.

[Likeaboss]

As the thread title i wanna give you my thoughts why sava/brut Mara should be reworked/unnerfed:

Thunderous blow: this ability has been nerfed to the ground ( from 152 debuff value/5 sec cd / 6 savagery points to 95 debuff value/10 secs cd / 13 savagery points ) and I would ask you to bring it back as before.
My reason are:
1. It was a good nerf when conqueror was the highest set in the game. Not now with the new set with high wounds.
2. Kotb/chosen got a superior wound debuff ( and is aoe ). Slayer as well ( single )
3. Is cleansable so 5 cd sec is better
4. Doesn’t get piercing armor tactic bonus.

Draining swipe ( target enemy regain ap 50% more slowly ) 10 sec cd and only 5 sec duration.
This is a really useless ability ( weak and useless debuff with no damage ) so you could rework it with a “better ap debuff “ or change it with another debuff.
It could be a “drastic decision “ but you could move draining swipe into monstro ( as aoe debuff for being more useful in warband fights ) and replace wave of mutilation dot into savagery ( it could
Be single ability )

This it could be a good balance to compensate high mobility/high damage from
White lions/shadow warrior melee.
Obviously Mara doesn’t need burst damage, it needs only a better debuffs.

O M Jesus

Dude if you think, Marauder is weak, you cant handle the class...

Thunderous Blow is the strongest abillity in the Marauder Rotation (except a Guillotine crit) and this chain builds on 4-5 debuffs... can be cleansed? who cares? dont want it to be cleansed use them in sinful order...

Slayer has better wounds gebuff... oh myy, what? is there any partyskilled slayer with 2hand? well maybe since ID got nerfed ..
and that skill drops his rage, so cant compare that skills.

"could compensate the mobility and high dmg of WL / SW"?... yeeaaa, the moment you notice that you discuss with a mentally unarmed opponent...

#Anotherdestrowhine

[TenTonHammer]

As the thread title i wanna give you my thoughts why sava/brut Mara should be reworked/unnerfed:

Thunderous blow: this ability has been nerfed to the ground ( from 152 debuff value/5 sec cd / 6 savagery points to 95 debuff value/10 secs cd / 13 savagery points ) and I would ask you to bring it back as before.
My reason are:
1. It was a good nerf when conqueror was the highest set in the game. Not now with the new set with high wounds.
2. Kotb/chosen got a superior wound debuff ( and is aoe ). Slayer as well ( single )
3. Is cleansable so 5 cd sec is better
4. Doesn’t get piercing armor tactic bonus.

Draining swipe ( target enemy regain ap 50% more slowly ) 10 sec cd and only 5 sec duration.
This is a really useless ability ( weak and useless debuff with no damage ) so you could rework it with a “better ap debuff “ or change it with another debuff.
It could be a “drastic decision “ but you could move draining swipe into monstro ( as aoe debuff for being more useful in warband fights ) and replace wave of mutilation dot into savagery ( it could
Be single ability )

This it could be a good balance to compensate high mobility/high damage from
White lions/shadow warrior melee.
Obviously Mara doesn’t need burst damage, it needs only a better debuffs.

Ok firstly their is a reason thunderous blow got nerfed and that was becuase it COMPLETELY overshadowed the wounds debuff provided by BG's hastened doom which required far more effort to proc

Its still one of the best wounds debuff in the game, also no it dosnt need to be on a 5 second cooldown becuase the DPS output of the abiilty especially if you use it after gut ripper proc is massive, mara dosnt have a damage issue their damage dosnt need to be buffed


<nope stand corrected it is 5s with 10s CD, the ingame tool tip is misleading>

and its not ment to be effective by its self, pair it with an ap drain or ap cost increaser like BG's choking fury and watch order healers cry especially runie's

Lastly WoM to sav?
Feeding on fear, deeply impaled thats 30% chance to crit not counting crit from gear or crit renown and ontop of that you want to make an initiative debuff easier for mara to access?

Mara is the best debuffer on destro already on top of being viable in every level of play with multiple ways to spec the class for every level of play it dosnt need any changes and quite frankily i feel it is one of the most balanced classes in the game and we dont need to break it to match 2 poorly designed classes like WL or ASW

[Ketamine]

Kinda agree with whats sayed above me other then the OP.
TB is rather balanced and theres so much wounds debuffs in the game, you mainly use it cuz you have it, so thats a + : )))
Draining Swipe no dmg? Did you ever checked the tooltip?
Then your saying this "Obviously Mara doesn’t need burst damage, it needs only a better debuffs."
It doesnt need burst damage, cuz it has burst damage xD
Impale is your bread n butter and only becomes stronger BECOUSE you have those strong debuffs.
Not saying mara should be nerfed, cuz its just how it should be but if your asking for a mara BUFF, then you must be playing it wrong mate... i am sory to say this.

[DanielWinner]

Side note:
Since Balance forum is pretty much ended on two open discussions, I won’t lock this one but you should also know that this discussion will most likely have zero effect on balance so the chance of any changes to be implemented is pretty low.
Feel free to discuss it for the sake discussion.

[ToXoS]

My 2 cents: Draining Swipe does the same damage than Cutting Claw, it's just that DS is a 2 hits ability.
Sure, when hitting something with DS you need 2 crits in a row in order to match a CC crit, but 2 hits also means more chance to proc Gift of Savagery. And the debuff is ok imo.
Tbh it would be nice that Thunderous Blow gets its old wounds debuff value back, now that it is a 13 points ability. Its CD is ok tho.

[larsulu]

As the thread title i wanna give you my thoughts why sava/brut Mara should be reworked/unnerfed:

Thunderous blow: this ability has been nerfed to the ground ( from 152 debuff value/5 sec cd / 6 savagery points to 95 debuff value/10 secs cd / 13 savagery points ) and I would ask you to bring it back as before.
My reason are:
1. It was a good nerf when conqueror was the highest set in the game. Not now with the new set with high wounds.
2. Kotb/chosen got a superior wound debuff ( and is aoe ). Slayer as well ( single )
3. Is cleansable so 5 cd sec is better
4. Doesn’t get piercing armor tactic bonus.

Draining swipe ( target enemy regain ap 50% more slowly ) 10 sec cd and only 5 sec duration.
This is a really useless ability ( weak and useless debuff with no damage ) so you could rework it with a “better ap debuff “ or change it with another debuff.
It could be a “drastic decision “ but you could move draining swipe into monstro ( as aoe debuff for being more useful in warband fights ) and replace wave of mutilation dot into savagery ( it could
Be single ability )

This it could be a good balance to compensate high mobility/high damage from
White lions/shadow warrior melee.
Obviously Mara doesn’t need burst damage, it needs only a better debuffs.

O M Jesus

Dude if you think, Marauder is weak, you cant handle the class...

Thunderous Blow is the strongest abillity in the Marauder Rotation (except a Guillotine crit) and this chain builds on 4-5 debuffs... can be cleansed? who cares? dont want it to be cleansed use them in sinful order...

Slayer has better wounds gebuff... oh myy, what? is there any partyskilled slayer with 2hand? well maybe since ID got nerfed ..
and that skill drops his rage, so cant compare that skills.

"could compensate the mobility and high dmg of WL / SW"?... yeeaaa, the moment you notice that you discuss with a mentally unarmed opponent...

#Anotherdestrowhine

1) i didn’t say Mara is weak.
2) Tb is a great ability but there no reasons to keep it nerfed.
3) i’m Not whining, I wanna a good balance for Mara sava/brut.
4) you know in all game high mobility can’t share high burst ? Like wl and sw melee?
You know SW melee deal more dmg then Mara brut?
And you call me a whiner just because I wanna back the old TB and a better ap drain instead having draining swipe ? ( which is usable only in savagery tree and lasts only 5 secs )
Before judging ppl for whining be sure to have a good knowledge of ror classes, then we can talk.

[Arbich]

What is the high mobility of assault shadow warrior?
I don´t think marauder is balanced, it´s to strong.
I do think that WL and Mara should get their charge nerfed, because their gap closers got buffed (terrible embrace for Mara, Pounce+mini charge for WL)

[larsulu]

As the thread title i wanna give you my thoughts why sava/brut Mara should be reworked/unnerfed:

Thunderous blow: this ability has been nerfed to the ground ( from 152 debuff value/5 sec cd / 6 savagery points to 95 debuff value/10 secs cd / 13 savagery points ) and I would ask you to bring it back as before.
My reason are:
1. It was a good nerf when conqueror was the highest set in the game. Not now with the new set with high wounds.
2. Kotb/chosen got a superior wound debuff ( and is aoe ). Slayer as well ( single )
3. Is cleansable so 5 cd sec is better
4. Doesn’t get piercing armor tactic bonus.

Draining swipe ( target enemy regain ap 50% more slowly ) 10 sec cd and only 5 sec duration.
This is a really useless ability ( weak and useless debuff with no damage ) so you could rework it with a “better ap debuff “ or change it with another debuff.
It could be a “drastic decision “ but you could move draining swipe into monstro ( as aoe debuff for being more useful in warband fights ) and replace wave of mutilation dot into savagery ( it could
Be single ability )

This it could be a good balance to compensate high mobility/high damage from
White lions/shadow warrior melee.
Obviously Mara doesn’t need burst damage, it needs only a better debuffs.

Ok firstly their is a reason thunderous blow got nerfed and that was becuase it COMPLETELY overshadowed the wounds debuff provided by BG's hastened doom which required far more effort to proc

Its still one of the best wounds debuff in the game, also no it dosnt need to be on a 5 second cooldown becuase the DPS output of the abiilty especially if you use it after gut ripper proc is massive, mara dosnt have a damage issue their damage dosnt need to be buffed


Also i gotta ask do you even play mara? or more specifically ever specd draining swipes? cause if you did you would know that draining swipes is a 10s debuff with a 20s cd

and its not ment to be effective by its self, pair it with an ap drain or ap cost increaser like BG's choking fury and watch order healers cry especially runie's

Lastly WoM to sav?
Feeding on fear, deeply impaled thats 30% chance to crit not counting crit from gear or crit renown and ontop of that you want to make an initiative debuff easier for mara to access?

Mara is the best debuffer on destro already on top of being viable in every level of play with multiple ways to spec the class for every level of play it dosnt need any changes and quite frankily i feel it is one of the most balanced classes in the game and we dont need to break it to match 2 poorly designed classes like WL or ASW

As I said The nerf of TB was kinda agreeable when conqueror was the highest set In the game.
They traded the wound debuff between Mara and BG.

Tb is not the best wound debuff in the game.
Tb doesn’t get piercing armor tactic bonus.
Gut ripper is 10 sec cd and usable only on savagery tree, which is mean you can’t use it always for TB.

I play main Mara, and you wrong about draining swipe tooltip ( is 10 secs cd with only 5 secs durability usable only on savagery tree )
Draining swipe also isn’t a ap drain ability.
About wave of mutilation if you read my tread I said “drastic idea “ .
Feeding of fear is make Mara more weaks to be crit.
You can’t slot anytime impale tactic.
Rly I don’t Understand ppl like you, who doesn’t even blink an eye about choppa pull/ sw melee-wl high burst and mobility but you gonna Drive crazy about bring back old TB for Mara.

[larsulu]

What is the high mobility of assault shadow warrior?
I don´t think marauder is balanced, it´s to strong.
I do think that WL and Mara should get their charge nerfed, because their gap closers got buffed (terrible embrace for Mara, Pounce+mini charge for WL)

Sw got pounce and jump back, how can i call it? Lol.
Sw melee bypass more armor, deal more dmg then Mara.
In a few words devs puts all good ability of sw melee in one tree.
Can you tell me why Mara is too strong ?
You keep saying they buff Mara pull, is not a buff is a FIX.
Why a pure str class should have his pull on intelligence stat ? Pls don’t joke.