Chosen are underperforming vs Kotbs in group play

[Tesq]

The purpose of my post was simply to point out that the destro utility tank was lacking utility. It is my opinion having played both knight and chosen to rr65+ the Chosen is weaker than the knight in all levels of play, 6 man, and warband/fort play.

What utility that would be is debatable but should have a direct survival and damage boost to the group.

Nah,

Chosen do more dmg in small scale compared to kobs, and in rvr it have heal debuff aura.

That said kobs stuff did not alll recived the nerf it need when the crits tactic were first nerfed. Focus mending tactic is of course out in value it need 50% cut as all other tactic has been nerfed on kobs especially since it stack with runy one....and wp one....sigh...

Vigilance is just slight better than what should be (45%). Oppression suck not for armor buff component (its over 900 so it's better than a 660 pot but well as any other armor buff in game on tank) is just the dmg reduction component not being in line. Thats it.

Rest of stuff is in common like super punt tactic being better on 2h (so now 2h kobs have all eggs in 1 basket)

Plus Chosen have no 2h peculiar tactic ...for that just revert and fix cripple strike stacking....brain dead change...

And stag ap cost for both is a joke

And blast wave ap cost is even a more of a joke....

[Lime]

Nah,

Chosen do more dmg in small scale compared to kobs, and in rvr it have heal.debuff aura.

In my experience having leveled both a 65 chosen and 80 knight, the knight puts up very similar numbers to Chosen (lowest of the tanks) but also gives a 6 man 10% crit and 15% more healing received making them straight up better. Any marginal damage that the chosen gets over the knight is grossly overshadowed by the knight giving real dps classes 10% crit chance. The chosen's extra 5% self crit and spirit damage channel doesn't add as much personal damage as you think it would in reality, as it doesn't really benefit from crit like a real dps class does with crit damage tactics.

If destro had both kotbs and a chosen to pick from it would simply take the kotbs over the chosen in every group 6 man, warband, fort, and dungeon group. It's not even a close choice.

Chosen is in a bad place due to many indirect nerfs and needs a utility rework.

[Tesq]

Nah,

Chosen do more dmg in small scale compared to kobs, and in rvr it have heal.debuff aura.

In my experience having leveled both a 65 chosen and 80 knight, the knight puts up very similar numbers to Chosen (lowest of the tanks) but also gives a 6 man 10% crit and 15% more healing received making them straight up better. Any marginal damage that the chosen gets over the knight is grossly overshadowed by the knight giving real dps classes 10% crit chance. The chosen's extra 5% self crit and spirit damage channel doesn't add as much personal damage as you think it would in reality, as it doesn't really benefit from crit like a real dps class does with crit damage tactics.

If destro had both kotbs and a chosen to pick from it would simply take the kotbs over the chosen in every group 6 man, warband, fort, and dungeon group. It's not even a close choice.

Chosen is in a bad place due to many indirect nerfs and needs a utility rework.

it's not spi channeling, its touch of palsy (with slot quickening discord)......+ravage spam+ tooth of tzeench).

spi channeling it's **** it was better when it was phyisic, you were able to do more dmg on runy and am that way, it shuld had recived a tooltips buff t be n par with sm one, it was just a trick to nerf chosen.....and ppl fell for it....

also again you are speaking of 2h build which atm have all egg in one basket since the punt tactic change has been not reversed yet.

chosen dont need bigger rework or buff it need simple chirurgical qol or fix imo. My def/supp s+b in sc usually can d if the sc is challenging the half the dps of a 2h tank, ex: 40/45k vs 80/90k ....

what we lack is not underperforming skills and tactics version compared to ib/Kobs and revert 2h for wb build, also if des want a kobs it can pick a BG with a chosen; in small scale the diff between BO/BG is negletable since any combo of tank will make loose something on both realms, you can even drop chosen and go with zeal res buff....atm tank combination are balanced more than enough.

[herooftime]

In my experience having leveled both a 65 chosen and 80 knight, the knight puts up very similar numbers to Chosen (lowest of the tanks) but also gives a 6 man 10% crit and 15% more healing received making them straight up better. Any marginal damage that the chosen gets over the knight is grossly overshadowed by the knight giving real dps classes 10% crit chance. The chosen's extra 5% self crit and spirit damage channel doesn't add as much personal damage as you think it would in reality, as it doesn't really benefit from crit like a real dps class does with crit damage tactics.

If destro had both kotbs and a chosen to pick from it would simply take the kotbs over the chosen in every group 6 man, warband, fort, and dungeon group. It's not even a close choice.

Chosen is in a bad place due to many indirect nerfs and needs a utility rework.

I 100% agree with all of this, Lime. The only place where a Chosen can outclass a Knight is in 1 v 1 combat, which doesn't come up very often in this team based game and is hardly worth mentioning.


Subject: General Rules for the BDF

5. Proposals and Discussions are to be held in English. I don't really do other languages aside from ordering beer and finding bathrooms. If you're not a native English speaker and feel your grasp of the language would not get across your message, work it out with someone beforehand to help you construct it. Be advised you will still be expected to defend it if you are the one posting it.

Just a quick check on the forums shows that the only person posting proposal fixes to the class in recent times is Tesq, who has some great ideas but unfortunately doesn't have a firm grasp of the English language. This might be a key component to why the balance proposals are getting overlooked. I honestly believe that we can fix this class for the good of the server if we can come up with some good alternatives to mirroring the classes and a few fair balance proposals.

[Tesq]

Just a quick check on the forums shows that the only person posting proposal fixes to the class in recent times is Tesq, who has some great ideas but unfortunately doesn't have a firm grasp of the English language. This might be a key component to why the balance proposals are getting overlooked. I honestly believe that we can fix this class for the good of the server if we can come up with some good alternatives to mirroring the classes and a few fair balance proposals.

im sure i would not be the only one IF balance section would be "run" more often, even that declared process of clear balance section and start analyse the various proposal that was posted some patch ago it's still not even started or it has been drop alredy....

[herooftime]

Just a quick check on the forums shows that the only person posting proposal fixes to the class in recent times is Tesq, who has some great ideas but unfortunately doesn't have a firm grasp of the English language. This might be a key component to why the balance proposals are getting overlooked. I honestly believe that we can fix this class for the good of the server if we can come up with some good alternatives to mirroring the classes and a few fair balance proposals.

im sure i would not be the only one IF balance section would be "run" more often, even that declared process of clear balance section and start analyse the various proposal that was posted some patch ago it's still not even started or it has been drop alredy....

I mean the Devs are working on this server as a passion project. I understand that lots of proposals get over looked because of time constraints. All I'm saying is that proposals that are well put together are more likely to be considered.

[Tesq]

Just a quick check on the forums shows that the only person posting proposal fixes to the class in recent times is Tesq, who has some great ideas but unfortunately doesn't have a firm grasp of the English language. This might be a key component to why the balance proposals are getting overlooked. I honestly believe that we can fix this class for the good of the server if we can come up with some good alternatives to mirroring the classes and a few fair balance proposals.

im sure i would not be the only one IF balance section would be "run" more often, even that declared process of clear balance section and start analyse the various proposal that was posted some patch ago it's still not even started or it has been drop alredy....

I mean the Devs are working on this server as a passion project. I understand that lots of proposals get over looked because of time constraints. All I'm saying is that proposals that are well put together are more likely to be considered.

atm is more than 2 year that a proposal is not moved away from pending review...

[Esperflame]

The easiest fix they could do for chosen is to remove the internal cooldown they added on Bane Shield that made Dire Shielding useless. They added the ICD when they had dots being individually resisted because dots were proccing procs which made bane shield overperform. Dire Shielding is supposed to punish aoe. It's also the reason why Bane Shield only causes damage on successful hit unlike the kobs version that punishes for just swinging at the knight. This was the nerf that made me stop playing my chosen because I refuse to go 2h Chosen and they ruined the SnB chosen.

As I said, this is a very easy fix that will help chosen a bit. The ICD was put into place because of a bug that has already been fixed, so why haven't they removed it? You wanna know why 2h chosen is so popular? You removed super punts cooldown, you've nerfed Bane Shield's tactic (that you have to spec for) and it lacks many of the useful tools KOBS has while performing these jobs just overall better. Chosen is supposed to outperform KOBS in dmg. This is why Chosen don't get a heal aura. Chosen has always been more Death Knight style while KOBS is very much a paladin in design. If the devs really wanted to see more KOBS/Chosen running SnB maybe give back to both the super punt cooldown and fix Bane Shield so it performs the way it was intended with the tactic. To punish AoE dmg is what that tactic was all about.

[Alubert]

I do not want an exact KTB - Chosen mirror.
All you need to do is restore the original CS and super punt on snb 10 sec cd. That's all.
All the changes that affected Chosen class were completely unjustified. I will not even mention about morale pump tactic after nerf - not worth slot.

[Tesq]

The moral nerf is somewhat a grey area.

How you balance a 1 trick pony?

That tactic dont make des better into something it let get to something faster the frst time in a combat because as a tanks you reach m4 in 1 min anyway....so after first use the tactic became useless unless there is a total disengage of the 2 realm vs order have 2x 100% passive eff on tactics.

Those bo/ch tactics are hard to balance if their function remain speed the moral gain only. If they had been made work with specific morales instead...