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Balance proposal

Black Orc, Squig Herder, Choppa, Shaman

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Orgruk
Posts: 198

Balance proposal

Post#1 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:29 am

Hi gitz,

I've seen the proposal made by Dan666 (just here) but can't reply to it in the Balance Proposal forum, so I'm doingt it here :
why not basing Go For Da Soft Spot and Spine Crusher ability to bypass armor upon the rage state ?

By example we could imagine :
  • Green state : only 15% armor ignored by this skill
  • Yellow state : 30% armor ignored by this skill
  • Red state : 50% armor ignored by this skill
Image
My Choppa proposals : Better Rage and GTDC replacement

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Sulorie
Posts: 5882

Re: Balance proposal

Post#2 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:41 am

Question is, do both classes need further armor ignore on top of high armor penetration and should they get it for free?
Dying is no option.

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Parallell86
Posts: 169

Re: Balance proposal

Post#3 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:48 am

ALot of that armor penetration would be a waste. Only beneficial to low level choppas/slayers.

EDIT: Well, the 50% at very least would serve no good to a choppa with invader+

And frankly I disagree with that new mechanic for rage. I find the original mechanic very good. It is based on damage increase while punishing your defenses. Its a matter of strategy, when to let yourself be berserk and it also gives you powerfull rage exhaust abilities.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 388

Re: Balance proposal

Post#4 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:34 am

Nope. Also why on earth would you even want to change the mechanic ? 50 % + DMG is amazing and on top of that 25 %+ crit dmg for choppa and for slayer 10-90%+ crit dmg with tactic. Marauder used to have 'fierce might' tactic that slayer has and it worked very nicely with marauder's ability to steal heals with deadly clutch even from potions / morales / melee heals.

Doesnt make that much sense for slayer, i mean how much can one class have? But this is about choppa not slayer. 2H for choppa (slayer as well) should give pent up rage/holding grudges effect without the tactic, and with tactic increase stacks to 4 and gain 1 stack in 3 seconds not 4.

When using 2h and that tactic you could use 4 exhaustive blows in a row and when using 1 stack next auto attack dmg increases by 25 % and using second exhaust it would increase next AA by 50 % next 75% and after 4th exhaust 100% AA dmg for next hit. Only with 2H and tactic it would work like this but even without tactic 2h CH should get pent up rage effect.

This would make 2H CH/SL single target dmg much more higher and there would be reason to actually use exhausts and not just stay full berserk and reaping mostly benefits if you have heals and guard. These 50 % Armour pene like WE/WH should maybe get nerfed to 33 % Arm pene instead of 50 %. Also adding slayer rampage should always be 10 sec and 2H only 45 sec CD does not consume rage. Still would be super powerful.

Aoe cap being 24 instead of 9 is a srs problem and really really really should be reverted back so fixes after that so that single target dmg needs to matter more so there should and would be big dmg difference in single target vs aoe spam.
"To clarify, me asking to developers to go test their own changes is not sign of toxicity or anger, but a sign of hope that the people punching in the numbers remain aware of potential consequences and test their own changes"-Teefz

jshort
Posts: 12

Re: Balance proposal

Post#5 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:52 am

I agree with Sinisterror. Choppa does not need more armorpen and not higher ae dmg as Dan666 stated. In citys my choppa usually deals more dmg than maurauders, base numbers are just base numbers, Dan666 does not consider furius/berserk dps boost etc... AE Dmg is more beneficial than st focus right now, this needs no more buff. I support limiting all ae abilities to 6 targets max, but the target you have selected should always be hit, so proper assisting gets a higher priority.

Also Sinisterrors thoughts about 2hand are nice, rage managment is key for 2hand choppa spec and the main issue right now. If this gets fixed/buffed 2hand choppa is fine. (my idea was to add 5 rage with each attack when you slot Pent Up Rage tactic but i like your idea too) People say 2hand choppa is complete useless but the burst capability is pretty sick. So its dmg is fine, but rage recovery takes way too long after all rage and points of Pent Up Rage are spent.

ashton007
Posts: 363

Re: Balance proposal

Post#6 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:11 am

If anything armor just needs another nerf to compensate the implementation to armor potions. Resist hard caps mitigate max of around 45% damage where armor is 75%. There’s a whopping 30% damage difference against targets like Mara depending on if you use physical or magical damage which seems rather high. I mean that or weaponskill in general needs a buff.

Freyn
Posts: 19

Re: Balance proposal

Post#7 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:27 pm

Sinisterror wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:34 am
Aoe cap being 24 instead of 9 is a srs problem and really really really should be reverted back so fixes after that so that single target dmg needs to matter more so there should and would be big dmg difference in single target vs aoe spam.
Agreed, I still think we'd see primarily AoE builds being used but the difference would be smaller. At the moment it's often a choice between doing good damage to one target, or ~30% damage less but to 24 targets, and from much further away, It's just a no brainer. There shouldn't ever really be a situation where you want to use AoE abilities against a single target unless they have some specific utility/effect, and yet that's normally the case, iirc the Slayers best single target build IS the AoE one (certainly the build recommendation that I've seen).

Other things would need adjusting a bit afterwards as the overall damage in large fights would be reduced, but there's not much purpose to going fully ST at the moment when the damage difference per target isn't that much lower, but you're putting out hugely more pressure. The gap needs to shrink.

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Dan666
Posts: 23

Re: Balance proposal

Post#8 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:00 pm

hello everyone

i will be honest i`m a bit stun with what i read here and this dont really make sense to me , so let try to break it down ,

in my opinion everything the choppa have is at a high cost compare the slayer and the marauder , the choppa really have anything free compare other class

let break it down

let start with the marauder

tactic (piecing bite ) bypass -50% armor ignored, what is the value of this tactic 14 ws=1%armor ignored mean 14=1%x50% =700 weapon skill free , do you realize guy ? a much weapon skill stats is free and how the class is so flexible to build because this tactic , and this free all your tactic slot compare the choppa have no choice to have tactic stats on it , and have hard time to play 2hander ??? the marauder have no downside + path of Monstrosity offer some healing free no target restriction better base damage for ability , i`m and have 0 probleme to breakdown every skill and ability and this out match the choppa with 0 cost and any penality for the marauder np all day, losta choppin :roll: vs demolition 3 target vs unlimited 93 to 133 vs 138 no match , add tactic for more target extre chopping get -20% dps so your choppa rage only make you take more damage :lol: on the top of this marauder buff with ferocious assault and mutated agressor :lol: and more ...

the slayer have the same issue of the choppa with build they are not flexible
most of they tactic same with choppa need to have stats tactic

but what really help a lot the slayer is rampage to be able to bypass the cost of 75% parry and blocking is just insane ,

this is where a choppa lost a lot of dps and hit a wall , this is where slayer are able to push the front line on the battle field and drop the tank but not the choppa , choppa suck vs tank and struggle is support role too hold or pushing the front line

right now in my opinion the choppa is only the noob and casual killer on the battlefield , compare the slayer zerg ball

and to be honest is not easy to fix this with the minimal change to the game and with the less codding for the devloper ,
also he need to respect the mirrior class but also slayer need to have is identity same with choppa,

so i think is fair slayer will be the aoe monster and choppa the single target with (yer getting soft) and slasha in path of da savage the critical hit from (yer getting soft) is not op because you need to have a block of parry before also single terget are from close range compare aoe are from 30 feet , i`m pretty sure the dev are able to dps check everything in test server , choppa single target vs slayer aoe this is the minimal change to balance both class and dont change the slayer and minimal codding , thank you

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Vri
Posts: 362

Re: Balance proposal

Post#9 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:50 pm

This a good thread, looking forward to seeing more posts in this one !

Omegus
Posts: 712

Re: Balance proposal

Post#10 » Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:28 pm

Why are people replying as if the OP proposed to change the entire mechanic for the class?


This is rhetorical btw.

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