[mSH] Removal of damage from squig leap (collateral damage from WL burst nerf) feels awful

[Rapzel]

Melee dps need a way to catch people or they're rapidly useless. Choppas get a 65ft pull that is arguably far better than a leap - pull brings enemy from near their allies, leap puts squig nearer to enemies. Slayers get unsnarable charge. mSH gets a leap that leaves you out of position, not in melee range, and dismounted. It's actively bad now.

Pull is not 65 ft (it's 45 ft).
mSH has 10 sec root immunity on M2 along with 70% speed increase that does damage and dismounts, which you spec into I might add.
SH has 2 ranged slows one in form of Squig goo and the other as a single target slow, unavailable to all melee but We/Wh who's range slow has a positional requirement.
You can also run with a pet that can hit from range to dismount, if dismounting now is so important.
The rest of us need to dismount by actually playing the game instead of spamming pounce/Squig leap which is how 99% of of meatballs and wls played.
But I'll agree I think pounce and leap was nerfed in the wrong way, I think it was the loner/ta tactic that needed to be changed to not give them 0 sec cd on pounce/leap but rather lower it by something like 5 sec or not at all, as equipping that tactic forced every career to fight you (given you didn't play wh/we which had to burn cd to get away).

[Orontes]

Reading most of the opposed views in this thread, it's clear they are from those just generally hostile to mSH. The Powers explained the reason for the pounce/leap damage removal. It was because they feared too much burst post the pet buff. The pet buff hasn't shown itself to really be much of a damage increase. It's actually fairly modest.

Pounce/Leap damage should either be restored as it was before, or restored when no pet is present.

[JarlBerzirk]

No one is actually mentioning the huge issue behind the nerf anyway.

They nerffed the damage to make up for the buff to pet damage.

But most meatballs take the tactic that doesn't allow for a pet anyway...all theyd have to do is add on to that tactic that if you dont have an active pet then pounce retains its damage. Otherwise this is just a super hard unneeded nerf.

[Rapzel]

Reading most of the opposed views in this thread, it's clear they are from those just generally hostile to mSH. The Powers explained the reason for the pounce/leap damage removal. It was because they feared too much burst post the pet buff. The pet buff hasn't shown itself to really be much of a damage increase. It's actually fairly modest.

Pounce/Leap damage should either be restored as it was before, or restored when no pet is present.

Why?

[Rapzel]

No one is actually mentioning the huge issue behind the nerf anyway.

They nerffed the damage to make up for the buff to pet damage.

But most meatballs take the tactic that doesn't allow for a pet anyway...all theyd have to do is add on to that tactic that if you dont have an active pet then pounce retains its damage. Otherwise this is just a super hard unneeded nerf.

I'll ask you the same question, why is it that important?
You have several other tools to dismount with, yea sure pounce/leap/shadow step could be more accurate maybe, but why if you get within 65 ft of a WL/mSH in a disadvantageous position are you 100% supposed to die?
The ability is a mobility tool, not a initiation tool.
The only other similar abilitis is shadow step a 20 sec cd that does 0 dmg and buffs defenses, but it's also located at the top of the path of assault and wings of heaven a M2.

The damage was just to troll people with loner spec and pounce them to death in 1vs1

[Onigokko0101]

First of all you should be grateful to play SH as WL due to RoR team rework. 2nd. mSH already enough st/aoe dmg while being ranged class at core. That WL "burst" is mainly due to Pack Synergy, mSH has more sustained aoe dps. PS. your class mirror is SW. There are mutliple types of mirrors. PSS. You have bow with 100ft range. I doubt you'll have issue kiting someone until squig armor comes off CD. You can't have everything under one class.

SH Mirror is not SW. Its a 4 Way mirror actually.

SH/SW/Mara/WL

[wachlarz]

No one is actually mentioning the huge issue behind the nerf anyway.

They nerffed the damage to make up for the buff to pet damage.

But most meatballs take the tactic that doesn't allow for a pet anyway...all theyd have to do is add on to that tactic that if you dont have an active pet then pounce retains its damage. Otherwise this is just a super hard unneeded nerf.

I'll ask you the same question, why is it that important?
You have several other tools to dismount with, yea sure pounce/leap/shadow step could be more accurate maybe, but why if you get within 65 ft of a WL/mSH in a disadvantageous position are you 100% supposed to die?
The ability is a mobility tool, not a initiation tool.
The only other similar abilitis is shadow step a 20 sec cd that does 0 dmg and buffs defenses, but it's also located at the top of the path of assault and wings of heaven a M2.

The damage was just to troll people with loner spec and pounce them to death in 1vs1

Then maybe every first attack of each class shouldn't take any offense because, to quote, you shouldn't die

[JarlBerzirk]

No one is actually mentioning the huge issue behind the nerf anyway.

They nerffed the damage to make up for the buff to pet damage.

But most meatballs take the tactic that doesn't allow for a pet anyway...all theyd have to do is add on to that tactic that if you dont have an active pet then pounce retains its damage. Otherwise this is just a super hard unneeded nerf.

I'll ask you the same question, why is it that important?
You have several other tools to dismount with, yea sure pounce/leap/shadow step could be more accurate maybe, but why if you get within 65 ft of a WL/mSH in a disadvantageous position are you 100% supposed to die?
The ability is a mobility tool, not a initiation tool.
The only other similar abilitis is shadow step a 20 sec cd that does 0 dmg and buffs defenses, but it's also located at the top of the path of assault and wings of heaven a M2.

The damage was just to troll people with loner spec and pounce them to death in 1vs1

You're missing the point entirely...they removed the damage because they buffed pets...MSH almost always uses territorial aggression tactic which doesn't allow for a pet...so they removed damage on an ability to make up for a buff in damage to something a mSH almost never has anyway....im not arguing the semantics of the purpose of the damage of squig leap, im simply stating that why did something need hard mirror nerf when WL gets to keep their pet but mSH doesn't? The nerf made no sense really.

[JarlBerzirk]

I also can't really think of many times where i insta gibbed someone because i pounced them off their mount and they "100% died." That's a rediculous notion really. WL on the other hand, i know plenty of my friends who are squishies who complain hard about being 3-4 shot by a pouncing WL. Difference is mSH is all aoe and WL can go single target. You shouldn't ever really be just dying outright to a MSH dismounting you. And it should be punishing to being out of position. Positioning is one of the most important things in the game. If youre not where you are supposed to be, you might as well be already dead.

[Rapzel]

No one is actually mentioning the huge issue behind the nerf anyway.

They nerffed the damage to make up for the buff to pet damage.

But most meatballs take the tactic that doesn't allow for a pet anyway...all theyd have to do is add on to that tactic that if you dont have an active pet then pounce retains its damage. Otherwise this is just a super hard unneeded nerf.

I'll ask you the same question, why is it that important?
You have several other tools to dismount with, yea sure pounce/leap/shadow step could be more accurate maybe, but why if you get within 65 ft of a WL/mSH in a disadvantageous position are you 100% supposed to die?
The ability is a mobility tool, not a initiation tool.
The only other similar abilitis is shadow step a 20 sec cd that does 0 dmg and buffs defenses, but it's also located at the top of the path of assault and wings of heaven a M2.

The damage was just to troll people with loner spec and pounce them to death in 1vs1

Then maybe every first attack of each class shouldn't take any offense because, to quote, you shouldn't die

One pounce = you close the gap, you can keep pouncing with no cooldown, and keep trying to dismounting, no other career has anything similar, ranged sure has access to dismounting tools but instant dots e.g. have a lower chance to dismount.