[Choppa] Beating on a non-meta horse, 2H builds gone wrong?

[Whynoth]

After some testing, I agree that this kind of spec has a much better flow than my previous forays using 2H.

The crit stacking is just to increase the probability of a crit chain (wich often leads to a dead blue)

Since the last change to Sov sets & the nerf of RvR gems stacking, I haven't mathed out the ideal gear mix for 2H but has anyone given thoughs to a 6 Warlord / 2 Off-Sov split ?
using head & back from sov, we end up with a net 340 Str & 127 Ws from bare gear.

But Idk if it's worth investing in that kinda set when all it provide is access to this stupid thing.

PuR tend to require an ExBlow every 4-5sec to keep balancing the gauge around the Furious state. I don't see FC playing along nicely with this kind of rage management heavy build.

[Foofmonger]

About Pent Up Rage, there are several points that make me avoid it :

1. It takes 5sec for the gauge to go from 0 (chill) to 25 (furious) whereas it takes 4sec for one stack to build.
So without Wot Rules, you will cap on stacks.

2. NMH > WK > RB, only the last one doesn't have a 10sec CD.
I don't build planning on a Waaaagh / Chop Fasta buff buddy, and I tend to use the furious state to place some slashas +25% dmg, with an ExBlow right before Berzerk! stage.
So on a standard build using one single Exblow, assuming I'm 2H, I would build 2.5 stacks between each reset.

3. NMH is the best ExBlow in the Hitta kit, best damage, best utility, best AP cost.
I don't feel the need for reducing the cost to 11ap, this ain't what's draining my bar.

Now, on a Wot Rules 2H deathwish build, I'm not planning for the long game, either you kill your target in a single fat rotation of NMH - WK - RB or you're pretty useless since you'll be locked in Berzerk for the rest of the fight. I don't think that kind of build is credible outside of very end gear when you have enough Str & Ws to free up the Brute Force & Dont Wanna Live Foreva tactic slot.

So Four tactic slots, you'll use one for Stab You Gooder, because your whole point is big numbers, one for Wot Rules to enable the wombo ExBlow combo, with the two remaining slots, you can choose to either :
a. Buff your offensive stats,
b. Reduce the AP cost of WK by 10 and RB by 8 AP, (and a meager 4 ap on NMH)
c. Increase your probability of big numbers on your Exblow by 15%,
d. Enable a transition to a more frequent although slightly downgraded combo once you hit Berzerk state by reducing every CD on your Exblow to 5sec. (I would completely take RB out of the rotation at that point since it's base damage is the same as GFDSS)

So, imo, Pent Up Rage has no perfect scenario for 2H.
I'm making perfect smoke loops in a vacuum, I know, but I don't see the benefit being worth that tactic slot. (a notable exeption being the DW Hitta spec but where's the fun in that ?)

No Choppa expert here, but if if I had a fully geared choppa I'd pretty sure I'd run

Wot Rules
SYG
Flanking
and then either RGF or Strong Finish. Probably RGF as having dual 5 second healing debuffs allows you to pop and roll in an assist train more efficiently.

I think not having Flanking on is a mistake, in many general cases on most MDPS classes. 15% damage scaling is just a huge boost, and additive damage scaling in this game generally makes % based damage modifiers (and crit modifiers) best in slot for tactics, esp when combined together.

Example of Flanking and SYG: Let's say you have an attack that has a base "tooltip" damage of 400 and crits for 600 damage (1.5x), and you are wanting to test the efficacy of Flanking or SYG, no other tactics. When Berserk, you have a 50% damage modifier which puts you up to 1.5x damage, so 600/900 (non-crit/crit) damage. Flanking will change your modifier to 1.65, which means you will do 660/990. SYG will change you crit modifier to 1.75, which means you do 600/1050. Flanking and SYG gives you a 1.65 base and a 1.75 crit, which puts you at 660/1155.

So generally what we can see here is that as the base damage goes up, using multiple % scaling damage modifiers in combination together will generally give the best results. It's also highly dependent on effective crit chance if you have to evaluate base damage increases versus crit damage increases. A base damage increase is also a crit damage increase, because crits are based off of base damage, Flanking still gives an effective (meaning mathematical) 15% boost to crit damage, since it also gives a 15% boost to base damage.

[Whynoth]

Exept Flanking doesn't work :
1. when the target has KD immunity and has noticed the green manchild wailing around his oversized weapon,
2. when you're pushing a funnel,
3. when YOU are the target,
4. when you're slowed / rooted and can't get around your target

In short, if it wasn't for that condition, yeah, Flanking would probably trump SYG, but outside of organised small-scale, don't count on Flanking. It has a direct counter in positionning and soft CCs.

[Whynoth]

On the other hand, it's a great tool for AOE specs that just dive in the thick of the fray and just spam the crap out of their 360° abilities, forcing the frontline to either turn around to face them or to have a honey-badger raving around in an angle where they can't parry the onslaught.

Sadly, Choppa is no WL. Our sweetspot for DPS is also when we're the most vulnerable and we can't pounce

[Foofmonger]

On the other hand, it's a great tool for AOE specs that just dive in the thick of the fray and just spam the crap out of their 360° abilities, forcing the frontline to either turn around to face them or to have a honey-badger raving around in an angle where they can't parry the onslaught.

Sadly, Choppa is no WL. Our sweetspot for DPS is also when we're the most vulnerable and we can't pounce

I think you are undervaluing the "sides" part of Flanking. It's not that hard to activate, and as a melee dps you should never be attacking the front of someone unless you absolutely have to because of positioning or CC reasons (why let people free parry you?).

[Diggot]

From what has been discussed several times on this topic, both Choppa's and slayers are the only class that has a broken mechanic because we are simply not allowed to use it's full potential without being branded as a nub and "choppas should know better then use Wot Rulez".
I am, and has always been of the opinion, that Choppa and Slayer berserkpenalty should be reduced. Even with guard and a pockethealer, losing 50% defenses and resists will render the choppa a free kill for any BW, SW or WL.

Sorcs and BW's mechanic pretty much gives them 100% critchance, for a penalty that they "may" take selfdamage when casting, a damage that is easily countered by a HoT from a healer.
And adding to that fact, Sorcs and BW's has selfbuffs for armor and resists (which choppa doesn't) while enjoying the safety of being a ranged class. Unlike choppas that needs to get into the thick of things...often causing the choppa to be a primary target .

[Moonbiter]

Does 2H have meaning at RvR?

I've tested PuR + 2H at SCs, and it was good and fun to play.

RvR WB story was no so obvious. There was certain conditions for effective 2H chopping, and most of it was not.

I would welcome some insight. May be there is only DW for RvR WB Waaaagh )?

[Whynoth]

2H is fine for roaming, but you are just a worse WE during sieges and forts.
You have to keep your rage low to minimize required healing, and with your only non targeted rage dump (Wild Choppin') on a 5s CD, you'll barely be able to keep rage neutral during posturing phases. Every tick of rage you get with Wild Choppin' up is some rage you cannot get rid off without a target in melee range.

Your overall low AOE damage output, combined with the lack of defense breakthrough (Slayers have Rampage, we don't) and general squishiness means that you'll just be a glorified renown piñata.

The main point of a 2h choppa is to have access to both incoming & outgoing heal debuffs on a platform with decent ST dps. That's not competitive in a siege / fort environment. Keep your 2H build for SC/roaming

[Whynoth]

Just to expand on my previous statement.

What I said in the previous post assumes that you're using one of the specs linked earlier in the thread.
It is technically possible to make an AOE 2H spec work for choppa, but I'm presonally not a fan of the idea.

this spec can be fun, I guess... but you're riding hard on the gimmick train.

just as there are quite a few interesting DW builds, there can be a lot of variations on a 2H build. The balancing point being that it's always about compromises.

This spec is easy to reach STR cap with once you hit Vanq-Invader, and trade some theorical higher damage output for some sustain through Furious Choppin' while loosing on the incoming healing debuff

That spec eschew furious choppin in order to favour a more sustainable pressure. You can't cap on Str without investing in renown skills, you'll quickly improve your piano skills because of the plethora of keybinds to cycle through (shame on you if you're one of those filthy Nerfedbutton users :p) and you get coutnered by cleanse spam. But if you have a pocket heal monitoring you, you are a pressure machine.

That one has the same general flavour as the previous one, but you trade some utility to gamble on very slightly higher crits. If you're blessed by RNG, you can put a healer in a very uncomfortable place in a single rotation. If you ain't, you're still applying those nice pressure debuffs that will require some GCD to cleanse.

You can tweak your spec as you see fit, don't take things too seriously, 2H choppa isn't optimized with the current build.
If we ever get GFDSS back in Hitta tree instead of Reckless Blow, then it'd be worth looking into the ultimate 2H Choppa build, but as of today, we're kinda gimped in favor of DW chopp.

[roadkillrobin]

Bleed em out is suppose to deal pulsing direckt damage that increase with every tick and able to proc Hurting Time, as well as other DD procs. Hence why the skill have such high AP cost for dps vallue. I've tried to point this out about a milion times. Can't find any old video proving this cos virtually noone specced for it due to the ap management issue it brought.