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Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

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Illuminati
Posts: 132

Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#1 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:35 pm

A short end game BIS comparison between Sov (Offense) and Invader for Choppa (may be the same for Slayer).

x7 Sov (Including Jewel) / x2 Invader (Jewel + Belt) / Sent Jewel / Bastian Jewel
Results:
+344 Armor
+9 Toughness
+8 Initiative
+24 Wounds
+7 Weaponskill
+18 Strength
+1% Critical Chance (+8% with proc, doesn’t stack with BG Crimson Death)

*Note, this is compared to Full Invader + Sov Cloak/Jewel, Sent Jewel, Bastian Jewel

Set bonus differences: (important)

1. Armor Penetration: +7% passive armor penetration by using Sov when not enraged/berzerk. When using this setup, you will be -13% armor penetration at berserk because the Invader set has the Overwhelm proc.

2. Auto Attack Damage: The Invader setup has a 10% chance to proc (on critical hit), so a smaller chance than that, to increase AA damage by 25% with Red Frenzy.

3. The +2 Mastery has some cool potential. You can get Furious Choppin (channeled heal), heal debuff, Get to Da Choppa, and Chop Fasta. You can also simply get +2 mastery points of damage in the third tree to gain a slight damage bonus to third tree abilities.

4. The 10% chance on x7 Sov to increase critical chance on a target by 7% does not stack with the Blackguard Crimson Death (+10%).

Final thoughts:

Cities: I have run a few Cities (so warband play) using this setup. It seems to underperform in blob vs blob damage due to the -13% armor penetration. It makes up for it in round 2.

SCs: The SOV benefits probably outweigh the negative (-13% armor penetration at Berserk), especially with the extra abilities.

6v6s: If you aren’t running GTTC you can still get still get some cool extras (nothing broken) with the +2 masteries. The extra +7% group crit (proc) may allow for some different group comps.

Overall, even Invader may be BIS for WB/Cities, but SOV offers some slight bonuses and build variance for other areas of play.

-Cheers
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Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

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Grock
Posts: 567

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#2 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:50 pm

Sovereign 6% armor pen set bonus equals to only 84 weapon skill, thats lower than 3pc stat bonus on all city sets, but also without the parry bonus.
For comparison Invader helmet gives 50% of that and Sov helmet is 66% of that.

Its pretty underwhelming.

If they don't change anything i'm probably gonna do a 5sov 3warlord mix to get the weaponskil for extra penetration, it should be pretty alright.
Even then though warlord x3 is only like 20 weaponskill above the damn beastlord ring/cloak mix...

p.s. btw there's a group of some prominent slayer/choppa players working on a balance suggestion to fix city sets, we gonna post it pretty soon i think
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phononHYPE
Posts: 214

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#3 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:09 pm

As I missed out on the early city and gold bags giving full pieces (so I am now about 4-5 months behind), I got some cheep Warlord for the WS buff. I can 3pc Inv+3pcWL+3pcBL and get 970 Str, 942 WS, 277 INI, and 771 W (racial tac) without pots, and the Invader helm gives a nice 3% armor pen too. I have no crit, but every hit is gonna hurt; trade-offs. Bring Da Pain! puts me at 1051 WS, but hardly seems worth the CD spot. So far from "BiS" end game, but does fine for the day to day grind.

edit: above is with Vanq boots, with invader 971 str, 921 WS, 280 Ini, 771 W. I run 2h, so I'm sure all you effective choppas are better stats/gear than me rock more, but here is a 2h perspective. I don't quite need bis sov stuff, I'm happy here. Well, maybe a bit low on wounds...
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anarchypark
Posts: 1521

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#4 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:51 pm

you can't use sov jewel and inv jewel together. rvr jewel is restricted to slot4.
and armor pene~ option work against reduced armor pene~ i think.
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Illuminati
Posts: 132

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#5 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:56 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:51 pm
you can't use sov jewel and inv jewel together. rvr jewel is restricted to slot4.
and armor pene~ option work against reduced armor pene~ i think.
You can use both, for the moment.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

Illuminati
Posts: 132

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#6 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:02 pm

phononHYPE wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:09 pm
As I missed out on the early city and gold bags giving full pieces (so I am now about 4-5 months behind), I got some cheep Warlord for the WS buff. I can 3pc Inv+3pcWL+3pcBL and get 970 Str, 942 WS, 277 INI, and 771 W (racial tac) without pots, and the Invader helm gives a nice 3% armor pen too. I have no crit, but every hit is gonna hurt; trade-offs. Bring Da Pain! puts me at 1051 WS, but hardly seems worth the CD spot. So far from "BiS" end game, but does fine for the day to day grind.

edit: above is with Vanq boots, with invader 971 str, 921 WS, 280 Ini, 771 W. I run 2h, so I'm sure all you effective choppas are better stats/gear than me rock more, but here is a 2h perspective. I don't quite need bis sov stuff, I'm happy here. Well, maybe a bit low on wounds...
The Beastlord x3 + Full Invader (all WS gems) is still hard to compete with unless you’re going for more wounds from a mix set. When I was looking at it earlier, I had 77% Arm Pen (with the Invader x7 bonus).

The nice thing you have is with that high of Wep Skill you’re probably parrying a ton, especially with 2H. Which 2H are you rocking?
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

Illuminati
Posts: 132

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#7 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:11 am

Grock wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:50 pm
Sovereign 6% armor pen set bonus equals to only 84 weapon skill, thats lower than 3pc stat bonus on all city sets, but also without the parry bonus.
For comparison Invader helmet gives 50% of that and Sov helmet is 66% of that.

Its pretty underwhelming.

If they don't change anything i'm probably gonna do a 5sov 3warlord mix to get the weaponskil for extra penetration, it should be pretty alright.
Even then though warlord x3 is only like 20 weaponskill above the damn beastlord ring/cloak mix...

p.s. btw there's a group of some prominent slayer/choppa players working on a balance suggestion to fix city sets, we gonna post it pretty soon i think
Check out x7 Sov, x3 Beastlord (Cloak, Gem, Book). You get an extra 7% Arm pen, but have to cap strength via renown.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

Tenhi
Posts: 50

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#8 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:37 am

Ya'll ignoring the 5% Parry Striketrough from Invader. Besides that for Cities 7Inv/2Sov felt best so far. I only have 5 Sov so I cant test the 7p Sov sadly :(

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Illuminati
Posts: 132

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#9 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:14 am

Tenhi wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:37 am
Ya'll ignoring the 5% Parry Striketrough from Invader. Besides that for Cities 7Inv/2Sov felt best so far. I only have 5 Sov so I cant test the 7p Sov sadly :(
Ive run that a bit as well. You can get creative with that and get close to running with no Brute Force. However, x7 Sov, x3 Beastlord rocks it with +16% passive arm pen (almost negative the Invader proc completely).
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

Illuminati
Posts: 132

Re: Choppa BIS Sov vs Invader

Post#10 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:27 pm

SOV + Beastlord vs INV + SOV
Sov (x7)+Beast Lord (Cape, Jewel)
+344 Armor
+9 Toughness
-9 Initiative
+26 Wounds
+104 Weaponskill
-55 Strength

+6% Melee Critical Chance (with proc)
-1 AP/s
+15% Passive Armor Penetration / -5% Armor Penetration (vs Invader proc)
-30 Resists

Thoughts:
For a while, I thought nothing could replace Invader + BL or Invader + Sov (Cape/Jewel). With +15% passive armor penetration, +2 abilities (or more damage in the 3rd tree), the Sov+Beastlord may be the way to go.

Basically, for the loss of -5% armor penetration (while Berzerk) and a AA damage boost I gain the ability to use 2 other abilities (Furious Choppin, etc.), more survivability, and 6% more critical hit chance.

I really wish the Sov +2 Mastery bonus was in the first tree to make this viable for 2H builds.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 5

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