[Choppa] Choppa's opinion about Choppa's pull

[Ysaran]

so the combo is not op

but rather because the tools exist all on one class? even if it didnt it dosnt matter because this is a group game and you think in context of min maxing efficiency for you 6 man or WB

and mara the swiss army knife has a variety of debuffs, damage and utility all at once in any one spec yet no one calls them op

there is nothing wrong with having strong options in one spec and their is nothing wrong with choppa one of the most group reliant classes in the game being able to do things by them selves for a change

especially not if CF remains as it is in which case you use WAAAAAAGH bo tactic and then things will be on "even terms" in terms of investment

well not really because destro will need both a 13 pts ability + a tactic slot

Maybe you are right, I don't have the absolute truth. Still I'm not a fan of the perfect mirror and I wouldn't be happy having ID or Rampage on Choppa

[Aurandilaz]

GTDC is about the only "good" thing about their AOE spec. They lack utility toolkit of Mara, don't do as much dmg as Sorc (I play both at high rank) and are squishier than suicidal Sorc or nude WE. (1400 armor with pot coz -50% and barely resis left if debuffed)
So the skill level to "gitgud" is high (or requires extensive carry from good tank+heal), which is about why most Choppas just play for ungabunga armwaving and pulling while having numbers on their side, few months ago it was Order blobbing, now Destro, maybe other way in few months into future.
The pull is annoying from Order pov for sure, but the class itself is also annoying from Destro pov. My organized guild warband (which is now on summer vacation) found it tedious in the first place to include a suicidal mdps with limited utility into the warband setup. (being criticized week after week for bringing Choppa instead of proper WB class like Sorc, eh well, both can melt Order pugs, Sorc just isn't handicapped at sieges and enjoys superior range - on Choppa at keep fight you can just AFK or do cheerleading with emote spam)
The AoE tree itself is kinda full of trash. First tactic is joke, so is 11pts. 5pts ability is big "why" when you have DoK bringing snare covenant, BG and BO also doing potential AoE snares, with less RNG and not requiring rage exhaust. 7pts tactic is kinda must so you can spam your lotsa choppin 24/7. CF! was ruined due to BORK getting CD reducer and losing all pre-existing synergy with Sorc IW bombing. At 13pts is then your "crown jewel" a random AoE pull that does mediocre dmg and mostly grants free immunities. Sure, occasionally you do catch squishies into your bomb, sometimes you just pull a tank or two, and sometimes the BW you pulled ends up killing you. It varies. You have no control over who gets pulled. The 6 sec channel stops AA and AP regen, so meh. It's good ofc in many situations. Don't think it matters much whether it is undefendable or not, Choppa in general remains a bad class for WB use with their current state of AoE tree. (if defendable, and tanks/mdps parry/block it - you'd end up focus pulling rdps/heals, as it is now, totally random, so less chance of guaranteed squishy pull victim)
Would require balance devs to play Choppa, so I don't think any big changes to Choppa AoE tree are coming. And it could be worse always, you could end up like WE without AoE and completely removed from WB gameplay.
Some ideas of mine would be to possibly improve CF! with a dmg component, maybe make GTDC defendable but improve dmg or make it 4s channel not 6s, make 5pts snare actually a credible snare with maybe higher cap but still some randomness etc, or remove dmg reducer from 7pts tactic, and maybe change 11pts and 3pts tactic into something useful that aren't related to suicidal roleplay or soloing in pve for minor extra heal gain if you grinding mobs while leveling...

Runzaway, rr81 Choppa

tdlr; it's kinda dumb and Choppa would need some real rework in their aoe spec

[TenTonHammer]

^
It’s painful how accurate everything you wrote is

[oaliaen]

Maybe they change CF yea...lets hope.

[Azerreth]

I Feel choppa should be the king of AOE MDPS, not the mara. Mara can go single target and shred opponents, and their AOE tree is just too damn good. In an ideal world the mara would be competitive but choppa should have the tools to preform like a slayer (Whom from what I hear is good at AoE in warbands and even desired.)

Since slayer and choppa are direct mirrors, its odd how choppa just seems like a less powerful slayer. Slayers AoE hurts and they can do alot as well it seems they offer more toward warband play which is why they have spots open for them.

Could also be the white lion lacks any real AoE use, so they don't have the competition that the Choppa has? I don't know how you can fix this issue with the current state of the game, Choppa would need to be brought up to snuff. But in order to do that I feel mara would need its AoE slapped which would just alternate whose problem this becomes.

[Ysaran]

GTDC is about the only "good" thing about their AOE spec. They lack utility toolkit of Mara, don't do as much dmg as Sorc (I play both at high rank) and are squishier than suicidal Sorc or nude WE. (1400 armor with pot coz -50% and barely resis left if debuffed)
So the skill level to "gitgud" is high (or requires extensive carry from good tank+heal), which is about why most Choppas just play for ungabunga armwaving and pulling while having numbers on their side, few months ago it was Order blobbing, now Destro, maybe other way in few months into future.
The pull is annoying from Order pov for sure, but the class itself is also annoying from Destro pov. My organized guild warband (which is now on summer vacation) found it tedious in the first place to include a suicidal mdps with limited utility into the warband setup. (being criticized week after week for bringing Choppa instead of proper WB class like Sorc, eh well, both can melt Order pugs, Sorc just isn't handicapped at sieges and enjoys superior range - on Choppa at keep fight you can just AFK or do cheerleading with emote spam)
The AoE tree itself is kinda full of trash. First tactic is joke, so is 11pts. 5pts ability is big "why" when you have DoK bringing snare covenant, BG and BO also doing potential AoE snares, with less RNG and not requiring rage exhaust. 7pts tactic is kinda must so you can spam your lotsa choppin 24/7. CF! was ruined due to BORK getting CD reducer and losing all pre-existing synergy with Sorc IW bombing. At 13pts is then your "crown jewel" a random AoE pull that does mediocre dmg and mostly grants free immunities. Sure, occasionally you do catch squishies into your bomb, sometimes you just pull a tank or two, and sometimes the BW you pulled ends up killing you. It varies. You have no control over who gets pulled. The 6 sec channel stops AA and AP regen, so meh. It's good ofc in many situations. Don't think it matters much whether it is undefendable or not, Choppa in general remains a bad class for WB use with their current state of AoE tree. (if defendable, and tanks/mdps parry/block it - you'd end up focus pulling rdps/heals, as it is now, totally random, so less chance of guaranteed squishy pull victim)
Would require balance devs to play Choppa, so I don't think any big changes to Choppa AoE tree are coming. And it could be worse always, you could end up like WE without AoE and completely removed from WB gameplay.
Some ideas of mine would be to possibly improve CF! with a dmg component, maybe make GTDC defendable but improve dmg or make it 4s channel not 6s, make 5pts snare actually a credible snare with maybe higher cap but still some randomness etc, or remove dmg reducer from 7pts tactic, and maybe change 11pts and 3pts tactic into something useful that aren't related to suicidal roleplay or soloing in pve for minor extra heal gain if you grinding mobs while leveling...

Runzaway, rr81 Choppa

tdlr; it's kinda dumb and Choppa would need some real rework in their aoe spec

i was waiting for you! it's apleasure to have you in this little greenskins reunion!
i see the truth in your words and it hurt.
i, too, think that there will be no choppa improvement in the near future, but to hope is not a sin.

[Ysaran]

I Feel choppa should be the king of AOE MDPS, not the mara. Mara can go single target and shred opponents, and their AOE tree is just too damn good. In an ideal world the mara would be competitive but choppa should have the tools to preform like a slayer (Whom from what I hear is good at AoE in warbands and even desired.)

Since slayer and choppa are direct mirrors, its odd how choppa just seems like a less powerful slayer. Slayers AoE hurts and they can do alot as well it seems they offer more toward warband play which is why they have spots open for them.

Could also be the white lion lacks any real AoE use, so they don't have the competition that the Choppa has? I don't know how you can fix this issue with the current state of the game, Choppa would need to be brought up to snuff. But in order to do that I feel mara would need its AoE slapped which would just alternate whose problem this becomes.

i dont think that the only way to make choppa shine is to nerf mara. i think that is the choppa that is underperforming rather that mara overperforming

[Likeaboss]

Could also be the white lion lacks any real AoE use, so they don't have the competition that the Choppa has? I don't know how you can fix this issue with the current state of the game, Choppa would need to be brought up to snuff. But in order to do that I feel mara would need its AoE slapped which would just alternate whose problem this becomes.

i dont think that the only way to make choppa shine is to nerf mara. i think that is the choppa that is underperforming rather that mara overperforming

sign with you, you dont need to nerf Mara.. But,

you cant lift choppa AoE on same level as Slayer, cuz WL AoE gap to Marauder is 10 times worse
than Slayer to Choppa...

If you only look at choppa and Slayer, yes Choppa would definitly need a buff, no doubt.
But when you go for AoE specially since we are palying Zerghammer
a chopper Marauder combo has so much more utility and damage than Slayer-WL.

[Likeaboss]

and mara the swiss army knife has a variety of debuffs, damage and utility all at once in any one spec yet no one calls them op

That's actually not correct could read some old forum whines of Order about Mara, but all reactions were the same for years WL has pounce

[Ysaran]

while we wait for some other (precious) opinion about GTDC i would like to ask you another thing. Most of the choppa would like to see a damage component applied to Chop Fasta and thus the question is: in your opinion how should be this damage component? aoe damage? aoe dot? a damage bonus like shammy's 'Ere We Go? physical? corporeal?