[Choppa] Choppa's opinion about Choppa's pull

[TenTonHammer]

What if instead it worked like the invader proc

i dont know, to have 2 ignore armor (invader and new CF) would be op? you would have almost 100% armor pen.

Pop CF and for X seconds your AA damage is increased by Y%?

this seems more a ST ability, it would even if it affect all the party. AA doesnt do much damage in the zerg.

suppose to take away the damage penality of Extra Choppin', should this apply too to the mirror tactic on slayer?

So my understanding was that procs don’t stack with abilities...or was that tactics.... I’m not sure on this one

Also one thing thing I want to express about my beliefs in balance, is that sets come and go invader is is bis now but we got 4 more sets own the line dp, warlord, tyrants, off and def sov along with what ever sc sets the devs might want to make

vanq and invader are game changers for choppa now no doubt but will we really use these sets later over others later even with the power of sets being closer than on live? Will we really use these sets over mix matching parts for set bonuses? Or over sov?

Another example some people here claim 2H chosen is “good now” that “ravage spam is real” all you need is bloodlord, does that sound right to you? That an entire play style is only “viable” after you get a certain set?

we shouldn’t ever consider class balance within the context of how sets impact cause of how it relies on a crutch a bandaid, rather how the class mastery/playstyle in of itself stands up

So no I didn’t think of it in the context of invader and honestly I will admit I don’t what to do for CF beside have it mirror WW and WAAAAAGH with its justification being lower point investment and no tactic requirement so your BOs can slot something else and bomb harder because the suggestions I threw out were what I had in mind for yer gettin soft replacement

Yes it should be mirrored both the AoE snare change suggestion and Extra choppin change should be mirrored on slayer it’s only fair and you know

you just know if we don’t there will be non stop bitching from high heaven from order biased players

But I will say this that lotsa choppin (and flurry) should be increased from 3 to 9 targets and extra choppin should be replaced with some form of utility tactic because the biggest caveat of truth from Aurandilizs post was that too much of our utility and all of our warband viability is tied to GTDC

Where that will leave slayers accuracy tactic if such a change is made I don’t know as I’m 2H slayer biased so I’m not concerned about skavenslayer

[adamthelc]

It's not just extra choppin and accuracy you have to worry about. What about the tactics for spiral fletcher arrow and Run N Shoot? Or to a much lesser extent the tactics for slice and razor strike.

I dont have a problem with those changes in a vacuum. Just seems like a strange place to start messing with the tree since extra choppin and accuracy are the only situationally useful tactics in the tree.

I have found memories of when Slayers and Choppas were first released. You could hit people behind you and I think the high end of the variable damage was higher. So everyone was just running around spamming flurry/lotsa choppin.

If you want to add a damage component to Chop Fasta! I think how you do it depends on if GtdC changes and how it changes. But I also dont think you need to get too crazy with it. A small amount of damage like Shatter Limbs would probably work. Add a little bit of damage on top of the SL tooltip if you think you need to.

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

It's not just extra choppin and accuracy you have to worry about. What about the tactics for spiral fletcher arrow and Run N Shoot? Or to a much lesser extent the tactics for slice and razor strike.

I dont have a problem with those changes in a vacuum. Just seems like a strange place to start messing with the tree since extra choppin and accuracy are the only situationally useful tactics in the tree.

I have found memories of when Slayers and Choppas were first released. You could hit people behind you and I think the high end of the variable damage was higher. So everyone was just running around spamming flurry/lotsa choppin.

If you want to add a damage component to Chop Fasta! I think how you do it depends on if GtdC changes and how it changes. But I also dont think you need to get too crazy with it. A small amount of damage like Shatter Limbs would probably work. Add a little bit of damage on top of the SL tooltip if you think you need to.

i dont think it is a strange place to do it here. its a fair talk in a thread from choppaz about choppaz for choppaz
even it was the only usefull, just slightly usefull tactic in the tree, it shouldnt mean it should stay like that. every other, not st/kiting class, dont have to make that investment. they even get stuff like armorpenn, defense counter, crit chance and crit dmg, which is gimped on choppa. in addition choppa/slayer is THE ONLY class, that has beside it benefits a damn strong negative effect on the class mechanic.
sure the 50% basedmg are strong and an exponantional factor, but so is bw/sorc and mara and if crit dmg tactic wasnt tied to pet on wl also. So if you slot that tactic, you lose 3/5 of your bonus on the standard aoe ability, while keeping the penalty. And that makes woot rules+keep on choppin+wild choppin spam more interisitng in my eyes->no tactic in the tree is picking.
just works on choppa.

[Azerreth]

I Feel choppa should be the king of AOE MDPS, not the mara. Mara can go single target and shred opponents, and their AOE tree is just too damn good. In an ideal world the mara would be competitive but choppa should have the tools to preform like a slayer (Whom from what I hear is good at AoE in warbands and even desired.)

Since slayer and choppa are direct mirrors, its odd how choppa just seems like a less powerful slayer. Slayers AoE hurts and they can do alot as well it seems they offer more toward warband play which is why they have spots open for them.

Could also be the white lion lacks any real AoE use, so they don't have the competition that the Choppa has? I don't know how you can fix this issue with the current state of the game, Choppa would need to be brought up to snuff. But in order to do that I feel mara would need its AoE slapped which would just alternate whose problem this becomes.

i dont think that the only way to make choppa shine is to nerf mara. i think that is the choppa that is underperforming rather that mara overperforming

I stated in there that the obvious conclusion one draws is that nerfing mara opens choppa's door more. I also said I don't agree because then the problem choppa has will be the same mara would have and basically we would just be pushing them into one anothers shoes. Choppa needs a rework fundamentally to make it viable for warband play (Outside of Get to da choppa), because that right now is one of the only reasons if any to take one. (Magus has a good pull, mara has good melee aoe cleave and sorc outpreforms all of them in AoE.)

[phononHYPE]

I like the idea of Chop Fasta having an AA damage boost, and if it were to swap spots with Tired Already?, TA? could be a 5 second ability that gives a chance (proc) to apply its CD-increase ability to any AOE ability from the Wrecka tree. That sounds strong, so maybe it only increase 1 second instead of 5. Just spit-balling here.

For this Chop Faster swap idea, the Invader bonus could do something like a Detaunt strike-through.

[Tesq]

and what exatly make slayer viable out of id /shatter limbs=?

you are circlign in a vacuum, both slayer / choppa have the same problems when it came down to masterys consistency.

left mastery dont have a real 100% rage working build which supposely being the support mastery is tied to reflect this flaw onto other 2 basically cutting half the combination in mid /right mastery building.

mid mastery is total obscured since now even choppa have a mono build for st/aoe (unless you spec m4 on right mastery so it's 3 pt of different).

right mastery
this mastery have access to too many things especialy heal debuff where instead on mara is put on 11-13 pt range (considering mara was designed by original team this is the place for heal debuff and not on 7-9 pt range)

if i had to make some at fly fix:

choppa/slayer
-wot rules / power trought: add-> but now your malus from berserk state is lowered to 25%
-cant/stop da chopp / deep wounds -> moved mid 13 pt and swaped with respective skills
-breakign point /strong fishing -> it now confer 5% parry and 10% crit chance

choppa
-yer getting soft: now work for all mastery
-tired alredy: remove rage requirement; but leave 2h
-keep on chopping : move it 13 pot, cost no ap, regen 180 ap
-no more helping move it 5pt

slayer
-devastate remove rage requirement; but leave 2h
-rampage: lower it at 50% proportional (from 100% flat) and move it 13 pt
-spellbreaker: move it 5pt

NB: tired alredy pale vs shatter limbs, shatter limbs and very bad gas from squig should be lowered to 2.5 sec of cd increase for make all buff/debuff values in game consistently regarding target cap; this way st cd increase will be better on 1 target; atm slayer can have what choppa have on his middle mastery but for 9 targets.....the same can be said for choppa fasta and sm version; they should be lowered to 3 seconds.

st cd increase -> 5 sec (1 target )
aoe cd increase --> 2.5 sec ( 9 targets )
group cd decrease --> 3 sec (6 targets )

what does this mean?

left mastery became a viable mastery per se and as support for other 2 with out mix st utility with aoe stuff and not having op stuff as rampage on aoe mastery synergy plus killing once and for all aoe build for small scale.

heal debuff and crit tactic fix greatly viability to mid mastery, devastate and tired alredy with out rage drop mean more viability to the mastery;

[Tesq]

i just wonder, you want something like Rampage, or something which would grant an almost same powerspike... Is that right? or did i missunderstand you?

If that's right, would you in return give Slayer party AA haste skill and crit dmg tactic?

You alredy have a AA tactic and a crit dmg tactic aswell....

[Likeaboss]

i just wonder, you want something like Rampage, or something which would grant an almost same powerspike... Is that right? or did i missunderstand you?

If that's right, would you in return give Slayer party AA haste skill and crit dmg tactic?

You alredy have a AA tactic and a crit dmg tactic aswell....

Oke give you that point about crit tactic on Slayer^^ you just need to be low to make it work
therefor chopper has 100 crit chance tactic

But an AA haste tactic for slayer only and a skill for the whole party is not the same

[Tesq]

i just wonder, you want something like Rampage, or something which would grant an almost same powerspike... Is that right? or did i missunderstand you?

If that's right, would you in return give Slayer party AA haste skill and crit dmg tactic?

You alredy have a AA tactic and a crit dmg tactic aswell....

Oke give you that point about crit tactic on Slayer^^ you just need to be low to make it work
therefor chopper has 100 crit chance tactic

But an AA haste tactic for slayer only and a skill for the whole party is not the same

You have another buff in place for that...you have ap for whole group ...

Choppa 100% tactic its unavaiable if you would like to read that is linked to a mastery that can only hit from behind with his spamable. Therefore unlikely to parry. Or eiter problematic given to use it you have to hit the enemy in the back

[TenTonHammer]

But an AA haste tactic for slayer only and a skill for the whole party is not the same

So I was waiting for you to perhaps realize the issue with this but dude

Every order mdps already has 50% aa haste

Raising that to 85%, you don’t see an issue with that?

What about stacking 35% aa haste on top of ASW’s assault stance aa haste damage increase and 33% aa haste? The spec is already dam strong in small scale

Come on man

What your asking for is a really bad idea