Well after some more testing I find that the yo wot is not the solution for a 2h BO, which is sad as it has a lot going for it but for WB fighting the drawbacks are too hard to justify.
The +20 % single target vs 80 percent on the rest means the damage component is not viable in large scale.
The surviability boost is defiantly good but that double edged dagger of wounds debuff and heal debuff in 2h is noticible and seriously detracting from the usability of this.
From the off tank point of view this skill with SWord and board this skill really feels right, when the debuff hits you can pop can’t hit me which does provide a comfort blanket while the damage debuff (and buff) can be ignored as the drama age output is not high anyway. Also in defensive tank mode the wounds debuff is absorbable .
In short in current form I personally think it’s better suited to tanks than 2h would be dps.
But on a separate note the risk reward side would be good to add to other 15 point skills as others seem just to get candy not poison candy
Black Orc Things
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Re: Black Orc Things
I agree with acidic on his last point. Either make all 15p abilities to be risk/reward, or none, as it seems a bit unfair. I played with yw a bit, and it's not bad. But the problem is just that debuff, like others said. When you pop the ability, your healers likely won't notice it, but since any good order player knows how squishy you are, once the ability is over, they will definitely notice how extra squishy you are. Now that's where your situational awareness comes in, as you have to decide whether to run or stay. In most cases you have to run, which makes your group basically lose a tank (you are still a tank, no matter the 2h).
Since pugging is not an argument for balance, imagine a 6v6 sc. Bo is an off tank that brings extra dmg and utility, he always was, but never really a proper tank. Why? Well exactly because he is a brawler tank, just like sm. Sm is a bit more selfish even, but the principle is the same. Since they bring extra dmg while being reasonably tanky, every group can have them. But that was mostly taken away from bo with thc change, and forced them to go 2h, we all know the story.
So coming to this 15p ability. In my eyes, you are still playing a tank role in the group, no? Ofc you can go complete dps, but that's pointless imo. You already have a 10% extra dmg tactic, that also gives you a bit of parry. Another extra dmg ability is not what a 2h bo needed if you ask me. You can have pretty good burst as it is. But then you get the downside, the debuffs. Any competent 6 man will instantly know when the bo uses the ability. At that point, they will either switch target to you (which means you basically have to run and the other tank has to guard you), or your dps will get even more heat. You do get extra dmg to burst down your target, but if it doesn't work and the other group keeps you cced (which is hardly a problem for order), it will be wasted, and you put a big mark on your head. That's at least how I view it. I didn't get a chance to play in a 6v6, so someone else will have to test it out in that surrounding.
How about this: drop the extra damage, and drop the debuffs. Leave the defensive part to the ability, which you can pop under intense heat (cd can probably be discussed, as 20s is not a lot for such a huge buff). Then you can tie the 20% dmg and debuff to one of the useless tactics. 2h bo already has a 10% dmg tactic, so if you want to go balls to the wall dps you could take both of them. That change isn't exactly in the theme of the tree, as it would leave you with a tanking ability in a dps tree, but I can't think of anything else right now.
Since pugging is not an argument for balance, imagine a 6v6 sc. Bo is an off tank that brings extra dmg and utility, he always was, but never really a proper tank. Why? Well exactly because he is a brawler tank, just like sm. Sm is a bit more selfish even, but the principle is the same. Since they bring extra dmg while being reasonably tanky, every group can have them. But that was mostly taken away from bo with thc change, and forced them to go 2h, we all know the story.
So coming to this 15p ability. In my eyes, you are still playing a tank role in the group, no? Ofc you can go complete dps, but that's pointless imo. You already have a 10% extra dmg tactic, that also gives you a bit of parry. Another extra dmg ability is not what a 2h bo needed if you ask me. You can have pretty good burst as it is. But then you get the downside, the debuffs. Any competent 6 man will instantly know when the bo uses the ability. At that point, they will either switch target to you (which means you basically have to run and the other tank has to guard you), or your dps will get even more heat. You do get extra dmg to burst down your target, but if it doesn't work and the other group keeps you cced (which is hardly a problem for order), it will be wasted, and you put a big mark on your head. That's at least how I view it. I didn't get a chance to play in a 6v6, so someone else will have to test it out in that surrounding.
How about this: drop the extra damage, and drop the debuffs. Leave the defensive part to the ability, which you can pop under intense heat (cd can probably be discussed, as 20s is not a lot for such a huge buff). Then you can tie the 20% dmg and debuff to one of the useless tactics. 2h bo already has a 10% dmg tactic, so if you want to go balls to the wall dps you could take both of them. That change isn't exactly in the theme of the tree, as it would leave you with a tanking ability in a dps tree, but I can't think of anything else right now.
- live4treasure
- Posts: 270
Re: Black Orc Things
What if you remove 10% dodge/disrupt/parry off of YW and tack it onto Guud at Big Choppin' tactic. So essentially, it would give 10% increased damage and 10% to all defenses when using a great weapon. So it would be a buff to the 2h BO specifically in general, but it lowers the overall ceiling of its capabilities under You Wot by 5% parry chance (if you were using that tactic at all before).
I don't play BO, as a disclaimer, so this is just pure theorycrafting
I don't play BO, as a disclaimer, so this is just pure theorycrafting
Giladar - rr 80 DPS AM
Re: Black Orc Things
Yo i'm new here, and wanted to know before I made a Black Ork: are there a lot of Orks on? I don't want to play an Ork if they're rare xd. Seems like most people play Chaos.
Re: Black Orc Things
For me the big thing is not that there is a down side, but that it is so sever.Torquemadra wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:54 pm So.... massive survivability, being able to carry out other duties while under it for no trade off at all......
yeah.....no....
I would suggest keep thinking on that, no snark here, suggest away.
20% plus damage on target 80% damage to the rest , annoying downside
Very good survivability for 25% wounds debuff and 50% heal debuff , the combo hurts
Personally I would:
dump the dps buff and debuff completely
Chose either wounds debuff or heal debuff not both (probably the heal debuff as this is just so nasty on its own)
Oh forgot, while at it I would add equivalent dowside to the othe 15 point skills
- anarchypark
- Posts: 2073
Re: Black Orc Things
since there were concerns about ork theme,
I think wound build is unique for BO.
though i'm not fan of ork brutes,
couldn't get my hands on it.
it'll be quite interesting.
shrugging off 800 damages like nothing.
don't need parry, dodge.
let them put 4k rotation successfully on BO, when they realize it's scratch, they'll panic.
It's completely out of balance but brings big warboss theme.
through size, they overcome threats. or die.
maybe wound + regen. like slayer dmg boost with less hp, regen boost with less hp.
I think wound build is unique for BO.
though i'm not fan of ork brutes,
couldn't get my hands on it.
it'll be quite interesting.
shrugging off 800 damages like nothing.
don't need parry, dodge.
let them put 4k rotation successfully on BO, when they realize it's scratch, they'll panic.
It's completely out of balance but brings big warboss theme.
through size, they overcome threats. or die.
maybe wound + regen. like slayer dmg boost with less hp, regen boost with less hp.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB7, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)
BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)
Re: Black Orc Things
Oh yes, there are a lot of OrCs with a "C" (K is for warhammer 40K, not fantasy ).
You will also find a lot of greenskins only guilds, so don't worry.
Re: Black Orc Things
That would be interesting!anarchypark wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:45 pm since there were concerns about ork theme,
I think wound build is unique for BO.
though i'm not fan of ork brutes,
couldn't get my hands on it.
it'll be quite interesting.
shrugging off 800 damages like nothing.
don't need parry, dodge.
let them put 4k rotation successfully on BO, when they realize it's scratch, they'll panic.
It's completely out of balance but brings big warboss theme.
through size, they overcome threats. or die.
maybe wound + regen. like slayer dmg boost with less hp, regen boost with less hp.
Like, the defense of the BO is not even avoidance or mitigation, just an insane amount of wounds. That would fit the lore, since orcs are tough as hell.
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Re: Black Orc Things
I dont play BO so my opinion is a bit irrelevant and just on level of theorycraft based on skill tooltips. Some modification to the new 15pt BO skills is needed thats for sure, but if You dumb the 80% dmg reduction to others, the skill become overkill. Having 20% increase all dmg, 50% armor and rezists and 25% all avoidance for 20s with 30s CD is huuge buff even if we consider wounds debuff(not that big deal if you run wounds tactic) and 50% less healing effectivenes at the end(You just backup or get guard). If devs dumb the 80% dmg reduction to others, eighter CD must be increased to 40-45s or duration drop to 10-15s.
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- Posts: 19
Re: Black Orc Things
Why not give it a % scaling toughness boost then (30-40% for example)? Instead of avoidanceToXoS wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:33 amThat would be interesting!anarchypark wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:45 pm since there were concerns about ork theme,
I think wound build is unique for BO.
though i'm not fan of ork brutes,
couldn't get my hands on it.
it'll be quite interesting.
shrugging off 800 damages like nothing.
don't need parry, dodge.
let them put 4k rotation successfully on BO, when they realize it's scratch, they'll panic.
It's completely out of balance but brings big warboss theme.
through size, they overcome threats. or die.
maybe wound + regen. like slayer dmg boost with less hp, regen boost with less hp.
Like, the defense of the BO is not even avoidance or mitigation, just an insane amount of wounds. That would fit the lore, since orcs are tough as hell.
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