[SH] Discussing the new changes

[charlysixb]

Nice derailing of the thread.
Do you play a Squig Herder and have read what is this post mean to be by his OP?
PD: Just had to look a bit in your post historial 30 seconds, i get it.

[Dammy095]

sadly no one mentions how bad and uninteresting it is to play on the receiving side.

thats what we did for months, playing against WLs
welcome to our world

Even killing SH pet horned squig is questionable - "melee resistance" is definitely waaaay overtuned as it takes ~5 seconds to kill with a WL, not mentioning tanks.

and WL pet takes at least ~ 5 seconds with whole group

[catholicism198]

It is good that we have a huge balance change discussion here, sadly no one mentions how bad and uninteresting it is to play on the receiving side.

First thing is the "Outta My Way" earth trembling . All order somewhat organised groups stopped going SC due to this change.
Being sure that it cant be that bad i gave it a try and in every sc i saw 3-5 SH rolfstomping due to healers being constantly swarmed with that *fun* stagger/kb thingy that cannot be resisted and cooldowns applied.

As most of you would say "it is perfectly interruptable " - it is not. Just selecting 1 SH in a ~ 6v6 fight when screen trembles non-stop is an issue. Now in reality it is not 6-6 and there are 2-3 of them ganging up on your healer in the backline; combine it with an added cooldown on Taunt (the main and only skill that is used to stop mara from 100% pulling your healer into des zerg). Even if timed properly, good luck with selecting SH and not wasting Taunt on pet, or simply selecting wrong SH.
Even killing SH pet horned squig is questionable - "melee resistance" is definitely waaaay overtuned as it takes ~5 seconds to kill with a WL, not mentioning tanks.

Indigestion - 40 ft cone , 20 sec cd cooldowns increaser on a the most mobile class in the game surprisingly makes it that everyone in your (order) team is affected.
We can go on about how SL was imbalalnced with old shatter limbs, or we can give this to another class buffed and improve the "FUN" aspect of the game.

P.S. : If you ever played Dow 2 you know there is a huge balance/update mod called " ELITE " where you have additional units and BALANCE. Now this balance comes with the option of "godlevel buff for race/unit x" just based on the fact that creator plays that race and sees it that way, or a friend of creator assked for it, even if it is proclaimed OP on a different unit/race by creator himself multiple times.
The point is : thought there are lots of new interesting things and units added, dow2 community is perfectly aware of it, it is played by same 3-4 #@@ELITE@@# players, while everyone keeps playing the old Dow2.
Now we don't have core game to go back to, but based on what I hear from people, it will be SH+BG+DOK+Mara vs pug 24/7 soon.

Best regards

First, just because you're having trouble targeting the right squig doesn't mean it's "oped;" you just have to "get gud." Targeting has always been an issue and will always be an issue in basic mmos.

Second, SQ has ALWAYS had a CD increaser, a better, more effective one actually. It's nothing new. You're just noticing it now because there are a lot of players testing the SQ changes and before there was only 1 or 2 melee Squigs around. It's hard to aim probably, so if you strafe you won't get hit by it. It can also be parried.
If you're going to qq about it, do your research first.

Finally, Once things settle down all the SQ players will go back to their mains or try out the next class to be "updated." Probably WP/DoK.

It's been less than a week and people are already crying. Where were you when Destro had to deal with all the WLs/SWs for months before one was slightly nerfed and most WLs rage quit? Were those months on months "bad and uninteresting" for you?

[Foomy44]

Spoiler:

It is good that we have a huge balance change discussion here, sadly no one mentions how bad and uninteresting it is to play on the receiving side.

First thing is the "Outta My Way" earth trembling . All order somewhat organised groups stopped going SC due to this change.
Being sure that it cant be that bad i gave it a try and in every sc i saw 3-5 SH rolfstomping due to healers being constantly swarmed with that *fun* stagger/kb thingy that cannot be resisted and cooldowns applied.

As most of you would say "it is perfectly interruptable " - it is not. Just selecting 1 SH in a ~ 6v6 fight when screen trembles non-stop is an issue. Now in reality it is not 6-6 and there are 2-3 of them ganging up on your healer in the backline; combine it with an added cooldown on Taunt (the main and only skill that is used to stop mara from 100% pulling your healer into des zerg). Even if timed properly, good luck with selecting SH and not wasting Taunt on pet, or simply selecting wrong SH.
Even killing SH pet horned squig is questionable - "melee resistance" is definitely waaaay overtuned as it takes ~5 seconds to kill with a WL, not mentioning tanks.

Indigestion - 40 ft cone , 20 sec cd cooldowns increaser on a the most mobile class in the game surprisingly makes it that everyone in your (order) team is affected.
We can go on about how SL was imbalalnced with old shatter limbs, or we can give this to another class buffed and improve the "FUN" aspect of the game.

P.S. : If you ever played Dow 2 you know there is a huge balance/update mod called " ELITE " where you have additional units and BALANCE. Now this balance comes with the option of "godlevel buff for race/unit x" just based on the fact that creator plays that race and sees it that way, or a friend of creator assked for it, even if it is proclaimed OP on a different unit/race by creator himself multiple times.
The point is : thought there are lots of new interesting things and units added, dow2 community is perfectly aware of it, it is played by same 3-4 #@@ELITE@@# players, while everyone keeps playing the old Dow2.
Now we don't have core game to go back to, but based on what I hear from people, it will be SH+BG+DOK+Mara vs pug 24/7 soon.

Best regards

Have all you backliners that are apparently 100% shutdown by Outta My Way considered not standing on top of each other? It's an AoE based around the squig, he can't lock you all down if you don't cluster and force him to head for 1 or 2 and away from the others. He's also dealing 0 damage the entire time he's channeling while I assume you are still able to get off insta cast hots, insta shields and cleanses the moments you are on the ground at least so if he's only locking 1 down due to good positioning on your part then his dps is 0 while your heals are above 0, doesn't seem too OP. Please correct me if I'm wrong about being able to get off insta casts during it, on my screen it looks like you guys have plenty of time on the ground between knockbacks to cast em. Just another possible strategy to deal with it, in addition to ap drains, any CC, interrupts, snares, bursting him down while he's overextended which has worked against me plenty of times, etc.

Targeting characters is not a SH specific issue so this specific ability shouldn't have to be nerfed because of it.

Lemme guess, you've never fought a guardian WL? If you think a pet taking more than 5 seconds to kill is unbalanced then I gotta inform you order has had an unfair advantage for quite some time (and honestly if you haven't fought a geared guardian WL than your whole concept of what is considered balanced in small scale in this game has probably been very misinformed for some time. If you find this gameplay uninteresting you should know all my RDPS find it very uninteresting that they usually die without being able to use 2 abilities vs geared WLs )

I'm fairly positive Mara pull does not have a 100% success rate irregardless of taunts.

[Foomy44]

Just wanna add that there is a very common bug on Tastes Like Stunties atm that makes the CD 15 seconds instead of 25 which means stabbity SHs are gettin a lot more self healing than intended according to the rework patch notes. Makes a big difference in small scale fights so hopefully order will be happy to know at least that 1 nerf should be incoming.

[Roguibu]

Hi! I'm been testing and enjoying the rework and I noted a few bugs.
1 git em! Is usable without pet. In the tool tip says it needs active pet.
2 tastes like stuntie CD count is bugged. Sometimes the CD ends but I can't use it. It happens with out a my way too.
3 when I'm using fast squig mount I can command the pet to attack like I am without mount.
4 when using the fast squig mount the pet runs slower than me letting it dissappear for far distance then when I stop it reappeared....
5 sometimes when I switch from SA to normal stance then SA again the bar stucks on the ranged bar not changing to the other stance bar.

PD: sorry for my bad English xD

[anarchypark]

come on guys, enough of whines.
it's not debate for whose turn to have OP or who should shut up.
submit valid feedbacks so none get OP.
that's all.

I wanna add counters against SH to understand them better.

tank's interrupt can stop outta my way. and healers have KB. stop the channel.
I might spec asuryan KB for my AM.

kill the pet.
both side having hard time killing pets. I don't know why.
does pet have red names?

melee trains avoid it. let rdps deal with.
or assist it only after kaboom.

position wisely, consider them as mara. pre-kite. pounce can't catch u if you were running.
make them overextend while keep moving heal. solo squig armor is not a threat, i guess.

pretty same as countering WL.

[wiscel]

It's fun to see so many squigherders online these days. The melee path is cool and all that but if I want to play melee I prefer to log my WE. But was just thinking maybe it's a cool idea to make one of the squigherder paths into a really long range path, like the engineer has?

Grts Nasty

[Foomy44]

Spoiler:

Just wanna add that there is a very common bug on Tastes Like Stunties atm that makes the CD 15 seconds instead of 25 which means stabbity SHs are gettin a lot more self healing than intended according to the rework patch notes. Makes a big difference in small scale fights so hopefully order will be happy to know at least that 1 nerf should be incoming.

I had ap use and cd reversed.....

Happens to the best of us. I really thought you guys knew about that bug day 1 because of how common it seemed or I would have reported sooner. Think all the other common bugs I've seen have been mentioned on forums already.

[Foomy44]

Spoiler:

come on guys, enough of whines.
it's not debate for whose turn to have OP or who should shut up.
submit valid feedbacks so none get OP.
that's all.

I wanna add counters against SH to understand them better.

tank's interrupt can stop outta my way. and healers have KB. stop the channel.
I might spec asuryan KB for my AM.

kill the pet.
both side having hard time killing pets. I don't know why.
does pet have red names?

melee trains avoid it. let rdps deal with.
or assist it only after kaboom.

position wisely, consider them as mara. pre-kite. pounce can't catch u if you were running.
make them overextend while keep moving heal. solo squig armor is not a threat, i guess.

pretty same as countering WL.

A lot of your toons have snares that are real helpful at shutting down OMW too (AM one in particular I think). I rarely get snared while in it for some reason but when I do I am always very upset about it, drastically cuts down how much area you can cover during the channel and doesn't care about immunity I believe which a lot of SHs probably try to get before channeling OMW. Honestly for a while I thought the move had some kind of snare immunity built in because of how rarely I'm snared during it but it's definitely happened a few times.