[SH] Discussing the new changes

[Tonixam]

There is absolutely no reason to take All by myself tactic.
You're wasting 1 tactic slot, can't use your main burst (Git em! with Sharp toofs), armor from squig, squig himself (disarm(cc +good extra damage on SH) and squig frenzy can be used only with squig).

From my tests tactic He's A Biggun works but squig damage increase is so damn small it's not worth using.

About lacking pet damage... I don't know, you guys expect to hit 400+ like WLs do? This would be crazy OP.
Right now I'm more than satisfied with damage overall and seeing numbers like this all the time just confirms it.(3100 in 1 GCD, could be done every 10 seconds)

[sogeou]

There is absolutely no reason to take All by myself tactic.
You're wasting 1 tactic slot, can't use your main burst (Git em! with Sharp toofs), armor from squig, squig himself (disarm(cc +good extra damage on SH) and squig frenzy can be used only with squig).

From my tests tactic He's A Biggun works but squig damage increase is so damn small it's not worth using.

About lacking pet damage... I don't know, you guys expect to hit 400+ like WLs do? This would be crazy OP.
Right now I'm more than satisfied with damage overall and seeing numbers like this all the time just confirms it.(3100 in 1 GCD, could be done every 10 seconds)

The get em damage from the pet could use some love. Other than that, it is ok.

Thanks for the info torq.

[Foomy44]

There is absolutely no reason to take All by myself tactic.
You're wasting 1 tactic slot, can't use your main burst (Git em! with Sharp toofs), armor from squig, squig himself (disarm(cc +good extra damage on SH) and squig frenzy can be used only with squig).

I have had that tactic slotted 99% of the time since patch day and it is beyond awesome. If you can't see the value of no CD pounce on a class with our utility you need to look a little harder. FYI I most definitely can get my armor from squig and the squig himself, the CD reduction works just fine with your pet out. There are plenty of situations where positioning for aoe utility is going to be a lot more important than a damage increase to 1 toon.

Not saying it's a must have for every build but it is far from useless.

[Stinkyweed]

There is absolutely no reason to take All by myself tactic.

Heck yeah there is...a WL was trying to run away yesterday with his speed boost and I was able to chain pounce him about 8 times. I kept landing behind him so I was unable to KD...but it was sweet glory as a SH to be able to chain pounce an escaping WL!

[dansari]

I kept landing behind him

[Tonixam]

If you guys prefer blindless pouncespam while loosing a lot of core tools you need to be able to kill someone, i have nothing to say...

[Sedok]

My main issue with the SH changes is that it has a high level of effective defense, especially against ranged dps; what I mean is the combination of Indigestion, Sneaky Git, and Camouflage. Right now, the SH can pounce into an opposing back-line and wreak havoc with impunity, as he will have a natural, high dodge/disrupt rate thanks to Deft Defender & Sneaky Git, throw out a cd increaser to greatly lessen the amount of burst he (and his allies) receives, and can get to M1 in either 1 Git 'em! (with a Shaman morale pump) or ~7 seconds with Strength In Numbas, and when he does pop M1, he has 7 seconds of complete control over the backline. And if the SH does have to flee from backline, he has 5 options for doing so (RUN AWAY!!, Squig Leap, Outta My Way!, KABOOM!, and Sticky Squiz).

Right now, the SH has everything; good burst, unbelievable mobility, great survivabilty, and great utility. He needs to loose one of the four and lessen another one slightly; preferably, removing/changing Sneaky Git (making it a Parry tactic would be better), and moving the cooldown increaser to another tree, forcing them to go after it specifically. That still leaves the M1 issue though, but I need some more experience fighting that to see if there is adequate ways for Order to counter it.

[Needabeer]

Right now, the SH has everything; good burst, unbelievable mobility, great survivabilty, and great utility. He needs to loose one of the four and lessen another one slightly; preferably, removing/changing Sneaky Git (making it a Parry tactic would be better), and moving the cooldown increaser to another tree, forcing them to go after it specifically. That still leaves the M1 issue though, but I need some more experience fighting that to see if there is adequate ways for Order to counter it.

Yet still not as OP as a WL......

[lefze]

Right now, the SH has everything; good burst, unbelievable mobility, great survivabilty, and great utility. He needs to loose one of the four and lessen another one slightly; preferably, removing/changing Sneaky Git (making it a Parry tactic would be better), and moving the cooldown increaser to another tree, forcing them to go after it specifically. That still leaves the M1 issue though, but I need some more experience fighting that to see if there is adequate ways for Order to counter it.

Yet still not as OP as a WL......

Already way better than WL for warbands, but then it was better before the changes aswell. Though not even close to being over the top, I completely disagree that SH has everything. Damage is still lacking, and the added utility does not make up for it.

[Dammy095]

My main issue with the SH changes is that it has a high level of effective defense, especially against ranged dps; what I mean is the combination of Indigestion, Sneaky Git, and Camouflage. Right now, the SH can pounce into an opposing back-line and wreak havoc with impunity, as he will have a natural, high dodge/disrupt rate thanks to Deft Defender & Sneaky Git, throw out a cd increaser to greatly lessen the amount of burst he (and his allies) receives, and can get to M1 in either 1 Git 'em! (with a Shaman morale pump) or ~7 seconds with Strength In Numbas, and when he does pop M1, he has 7 seconds of complete control over the backline. And if the SH does have to flee from backline, he has 5 options for doing so (RUN AWAY!!, Squig Leap, Outta My Way!, KABOOM!, and Sticky Squiz).

Right now, the SH has everything; good burst, unbelievable mobility, great survivabilty, and great utility. He needs to loose one of the four and lessen another one slightly; preferably, removing/changing Sneaky Git (making it a Parry tactic would be better), and moving the cooldown increaser to another tree, forcing them to go after it specifically. That still leaves the M1 issue though, but I need some more experience fighting that to see if there is adequate ways for Order to counter it.

so does WL
jumping into warbands, killing few and getting away