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[SH] Place in endgame content

Black Orc, Squig Herder, Choppa, Shaman
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Aebel
Posts: 125

[SH] Place in endgame content

Post#1 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:55 pm

What kind of place does a SH have in endgame content? I know the SW has some support abilities, do the SH offer anything to large or small scale play endgame or are they mostly a solo class?

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lefze
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Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#2 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:26 am

All around solid at everything, has a place in all formats. Good damage, good mobility, good CC and good utility even for warband scale in contrast to SW through bad gas.
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Aebel
Posts: 125

Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#3 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:31 am

lefze wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:26 am All around solid at everything, has a place in all formats. Good damage, good mobility, good CC and good utility even for warband scale in contrast to SW through bad gas.
Thank you for the quick answer, SH might be something I want to look into in that case. I know Destro is lacking in rdps, i dont like the sorcs aesthetically and while the magus is cool moving your daemon around all the time is a pain in the ass

spiritbull
Posts: 52

Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#4 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:05 am

lefze wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:26 am All around solid at everything, has a place in all formats. Good damage, good mobility, good CC and good utility even for warband scale in contrast to SW through bad gas.
I would say, play it if you want, just for fun, but bear in mind:
- Worst damage in the game (at least for dps classes), to do any damage you'll have to spec to glass canon rr and taly = die from a few dots even with heal :lol:
mobility is good, but not enough to kite most experienced playes, cuz of shitty damage
- for roaming parties debuffs are nice, but other classes have debuffs too, and you don't have damage..
- for wbs, may be 1 sh makes sense, but two would be already huge lack of dps

Recently, we've made 4 sh gank/sc party - doesn't work (lack of damage, especially burst)

Based on this I parked my SH until the class remade

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lefze
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Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#5 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:17 am

spiritbull wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:05 am
lefze wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:26 am All around solid at everything, has a place in all formats. Good damage, good mobility, good CC and good utility even for warband scale in contrast to SW through bad gas.
I would say, play it if you want, just for fun, but bear in mind:
- Worst damage in the game (at least for dps classes), to do any damage you'll have to spec to glass canon rr and taly = die from a few dots even with heal :lol:
mobility is good, but not enough to kite most experienced playes, cuz of shitty damage
- for roaming parties debuffs are nice, but other classes have debuffs too, and you don't have damage..
- for wbs, may be 1 sh makes sense, but two would be already huge lack of dps

Recently, we've made 4 sh gank/sc party - doesn't work (lack of damage, especially burst)

Based on this I parked my SH until the class remade
Let me just say that personal experiences vary, and that your experience is in no way representative of the real potential of the class. 4 SH is obviously a bad idea, but so is 4 of any dps as thats not how the game is meant to be played.

SH pressure is in fact huge, huge enough for it to be relevant even when it comes to 6v6. For warbands the damage is also good though it is a bit clunky after certain changes, and the class has an amazing m4. Problem is just that people don't play it right. Bad gas, big range and good, constant pressure makes it relevant, but you gotta spec it right.
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spiritbull
Posts: 52

Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#6 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:45 am

Of course, I share my personal experience! Sorry if made other feeling.
No doubt, 4 sh's are not optimal setup for 6x6, my point was that SHs have extream lack of damage, especially burst. 2 sorcs kill enemies much more effective than 4 SHs.

Bad gas and big range are quite opposite things. From my experience, if you play bad gas, then prepare to sad feeling that one of the healers from WB is ressing you instead of healing useful mates. If you want cd increase - guarded choppa will make it much better.
Again from my experience, SH doesn't do any pressure. They can debuff, silence healers, slow single or multiple(if you're risky) targets, but they don't do any pressure. Also if you want to improve your shitty DPS, you have to put points in 1st tree and not to 3rd with bad gas.

In our guild many have SHs, but very rare take them to WB.

IMHO

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#7 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:19 am

Lefze knows what he is doing. Most likely you are playing SH wrong. The same happens with some prominent advice chat celebrity SH, who complain about so-called huge nerfs to their loved class at every opportunity they have.
Without some recording we can hardly see how you play to find possible mistakes.
Dying is no option.

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Reesh
Posts: 645

Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#8 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:29 am

SH is definitely in a decent spot in regards to dps, though there's one downside, it requires 60rr and full conqueror.
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Hargrim
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Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#9 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:37 am

Unbiased destruction opinion:
Spoiler:
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lefze
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Re: [SH] Place in endgame content

Post#10 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:22 am

spiritbull wrote: Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:45 am Of course, I share my personal experience! Sorry if made other feeling.
No doubt, 4 sh's are not optimal setup for 6x6, my point was that SHs have extream lack of damage, especially burst. 2 sorcs kill enemies much more effective than 4 SHs.

Bad gas and big range are quite opposite things. From my experience, if you play bad gas, then prepare to sad feeling that one of the healers from WB is ressing you instead of healing useful mates. If you want cd increase - guarded choppa will make it much better.
Again from my experience, SH doesn't do any pressure. They can debuff, silence healers, slow single or multiple(if you're risky) targets, but they don't do any pressure. Also if you want to improve your shitty DPS, you have to put points in 1st tree and not to 3rd with bad gas.

In our guild many have SHs, but very rare take them to WB.

IMHO
The range isn't an upside because you can stay at 65ft, because you can't. A persistent problem in RvR is that many classes can have insane damage up front, but with a 30ft range you often can't land spells because of snares and punts. SH only has one cooldown to pop in melee range, outside of that you only need to stay in range of something for Expert Skirmisher to be active and you can pressure out to 65ft. The damage is very okay, and the constant 65ft 1 sec cast STY spam lets you clean up things the main bomb can't while not dropping pressure nearly as often as other dps.

As for melting if you go to the frontline, that has nothing to do with the class, any dps that tries to go into the frontline without the support needed to do it meets that fate. And all dps have to go into the frontline for max potential when bombing.

And also, SH selfpump+shammy pump+Lots of shootin, go do it with that 4 SH party, it's hilarious even with only 4 squigs.

As for SH in 6 mans, try thinking more along the lines of SH and Sorc in the same party instead of two of either. Toss in a couple of tanks and healers and you have a reeeally good roaming party. Or switch either of them for a melee and you have a competitive party even for Isha for example. And you might bring up the "SH has no pressure" argument again, but it's simply not true, people do take SH over Sorc a lot.

Edit: Choppa doesn't have a CD increaser just btw. You are likely thinking about the Slayers Shatter Limbs. Choppa has the opposite effect which was nerfed to oblivion. And ALL dps should be guarded.
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