Question regarding playing a Black Orc, not build related.

[Darrell]

I'd like to come back to playing RoR now that I've found some free time again. Previously, I had played a few DPS classes such as Witch Elf, Marauder and Choppa. As I usually pug'd, the experience wasn't too pleasant. Looking through the Black Orc build discussion thread, it seems that a SnB dps Black Orc might be fun to play as I enjoy being in the thick of things and I like the feel of the Greenskins. However, I wanted to ask some general questions about the playstyle of a Black Orc, what would be expected of me, and some questions regarding what I should be doing while leveling up. I'd also like to thank everyone who contributed to the build thread, as it was useful to comb through.

Firstly, what is the general playstyle of a dps Black Orc? I've never played a tank role in RoR, and very rarely in other games, so I don't want to botch it too badly. Presumably I need to keep guard and assist the DPS on targets, peel for healers, try to be a general nuisance to the enemy. I know not to waste the knockback and give the enemy immunity. Besides those, are there any other big things I need to keep in mind? What are the biggest departures to the playstyle coming from something like a Choppa or Marauder?

While in the process of leveling, should I start work on the dps build right away (moving toward THC) or would it be better to work on another path? How dependent is the dps Black Orc on gear to be effective and, if it is dependent, at what point of gear can I consider changing over? I don't mind working on the tanking aspect as it's probably something I should learn anyway, I just want to make sure I'm not being a liability to my group members along the way. Currently don't have a guild or anything, so I'll be mainly pugging scenarios and running around lakes.

Personal question: is a dps Black Orc able to put up enough pressure to pose a threat? Ideally I'd like a good mix of survivability and damage so I can live long enough to help my team while being dangerous enough that the enemy team won't just ignore me. I hate that feeling of beating on another player and never seeing their health bar budge. How is the damage of a dps SnB Black Orc compared to, say, a defensive Marauder? I know that Loud Mouth and Gork Smash are the biggest dps talents, but do they put out significant enough damage?

Thank you for taking the time out to read and offer any advice. Hope to run into you all in game soon.

[Collateral]

Well you got everything right as far as tanking goes. If you indeed mean to play a snb bo, you will still be a tank class, which means you will guard and assist. This is really just practice, practice, practice. Like anything in life, practice makes perfect. Of course, you don't have to strive to be perfect or anything, but a good tank goes a long way in a group oriented game (even if a dps tank). Playing a tank after being a dps class takes some getting used to, but don't be scared. Kepp an eye on your team mates and switch guard as is needed (and of course, stay with your guard!).

For lvling it's up to you. I think farming mobs is still the quickest way if you wanna reach 30 fast. But you can do pvp as well. I mentioned this in the build thread I think, but I'll repeat it here, going dps at low lvl will put more stress on your team than help it. You will be a liability since you are very squishy. And no one wants squishy lowbie dps tanks. So yes, I recommend going with a tanky tree first, so middle and right trees. Getting entry lvl gear won't be very hard once you hit 31 and join t4 players in scs. At that point you wanna start getting your dps gear, which will be mercenary, along with sc weapons. You can switch to left tree once you get to 40 I would say. The builds you can check in the thread.

A well geared dps bo is nothing to sneeze at as far as dmg goes. I'm currently running with 34% crit with gork smash. Loudmouth and gork smash are a staple of dps builds, so yes they do a lot of dmg for you. I'm critting for over 1k on certain targets under right conditions. However you will have to be careful with your engagements, as you will still be relatively squishy. If you will pug scs, I recommend not going absolute balls to the walls dps. Get sone ini and armour talis.

All in all, dps snb bo is a very fun class to play. And it also has the best look in the game

[DokB]

The biggest departure from a real dps class such as Choppa/Marauder to a dps off-tank is the role you serve in a 6 man. What you should concentrate on mastering is guardbotting (fairly straightforward), knowing when to peel off, knowing when to switch guard/xguard without being asked, assisting off your main assist, ensuring that you tag key targets with challenge and being able to provide sufficient DPS assist while not being a liability to the groups healers (no one wants to be wasting heals/AP where they don’t have to on a squishy tank).

Your damage isn’t quite at the top levels compared to the proper DPS classes, but you definitely are the pinnacle of DPS tanks on Destro, followed closely by BG who really only loses out to you since BG doesn’t have skull thumper (but makes up for it in other areas such as wound debuff/CD/2H generally doing more damage than SnB/super punt on 10s CD if 2H). The pressure you can provide alongside your main assist is enough to kill most stuff that doesn’t have focussed heals on them and even then you can burn through guards/heals quite quickly if well geared enough. It’s better to avoid guarded targets or get a tank with a real punt to knock the enemy tank away where you will then have more than enough DPS to burn through someone.

Basically it comes down to remembering you’re still a tank first and a DPS second. Look at the skills you have and know when to prioritise them in your rotations.
Getting fireball spammed by brighties? Prioritise SMH within your rotations.
NiDF on key targets such as healers/WL/SM and knowing when to best use the 4 second immunity granted from it.
Save your taunt for enemy rez attempts or if you want to do big burst with THC.
Knowing when it’s best to use your punt.
Don’t forget to throw Follow Me Lead to other people in your party, with the recent changes to how parry is calculated, you’d be amazed how much more people can parry after you give them a decent WS buff.
Skullthump everyone then feign ignorance when your guildies DPS screams at you for stealing the juicy DBs.

[Darrell]

All good things to know, thank you for your feedback. I'll keep going over the build thread to see what I should be working towards as I level. Started my journey this evening on my new Black Orc, and I confess I do love their looks.

You mentioned the quickest way to level may still be farming mobs. Could you elaborate on what you mean by that? I remember the last time I played, most were farming champions at the RvR camps. Is that still the case, or is it a different method? I would like to try and get into T4 relatively quickly while getting some RvR in through scenarios or the lakes as well.

[DokB]

Any form of power levelling has been largely removed or made impossible to do so in group with the way exp is split. Any other ways to power level are closely guarded secrets.

Like Collateral said, the only real way at the moment to grind is to be constantly queued up for scenarios and just kills mobs and do pve quests constantly. RvR can be good for renown gains, but slightly lacking in experience gained. T2-T3-T4 is all merged so you get thrown into the lakes at level 16 and above with everyone else and bolstered accordingly.

[Voodoom]

I hit rank 40 last week with my Black Orc created during the double XP week-end so my experience is pretty recent.
From lvl 1 to 31 I used 2H while aiming to THC and the crit tactic. Mobs melted and so did Order players when I was a bit overleveled. But I definitely lacked some utility in SC, so it may not be the best option (but it was fun).
I basically grinded PQ forever and managed to get the golden bags 95% of the time. I have no idea of how is the reward is calculated but I had huge success with my 2H BO.
I had no troubles grinding packs and multiple champions up to the level 30 IIRC. When I hit lvl 30 (or 29/31 I don't remember) my character felt muuuuuch squishier and I almost died to the exact champion mob I killed a dozen of time with ease the hour before. I cannot explain that, that was mystical and a bit demotivating at the same time. Same thing for packs, the exact same mobs became MUCH trickier and I died a lot : the braindead AoE grinding time was over. So beware when you hit that level.

When you hit lvl 31 I suggest going full SnB support spec as you won't have any way to pressure the ennemy team with your terrible DPS. I had good success with a Rock'Ard / Waaagh spec. Stick on the objectives in SC like an unkillable inamovible object and annoy the ennemy team with CC as much as you can.

And don't bother farming lower tier RvR influence, it's not worth it IMO. You will get much better rewards at the next SC / RvR tier.

I suggest farming Ruin set ASAP, it has decent stats and the grinding will give you alot of XP. There is always groups happy to get a tank for it.

I hope you will like the class, the leveling is slow and boring but oh man Black Orc is a fun class. Punting half of the ennemy team in lava and reversing the tide of a SC is the best ****.

[Valion1410]

I just started on this server (had tried it couple months ago but stopped because I just had too many games.. and not enough friends :p)

Now I am coming back with a group of 4.. man I must say, reading this thread here.. this community is gold... mature.. interesting.. really love it!

Thanks for the thread (I created a black orc last night so it interests me as well :p)

[Darrell]

Thought I would provide a bit of an update.

Ghorzag is 18/25 now. I’ve pretty much been leveling exclusively through RvR, or hitting PQs while waiting for scenarios to pop. The XP has felt almost excruciatingly slow; 40 seems like an eternity away, haha. As Collateral recommended, I’ve been going up the Toughest tree and picking up defensive gear. My damage is pretty low, but I can get stuck in and stay there. Just using the Wounds racial right now, my second will be the toughness. Looking forward to hitting 40 so I can try out the damage side of things.

Hold the Line is awesome. I love standing at the front of the group with my shield up, listening to all the attacks miss. It’s been handy in saving my bacon quite a few times while pulling back and protecting my group at the same time. I just got the punt, and I’ve already put it to good use though I’m still learning the feel for the range. Punting a tank or healer off a ledge, or punting away a dps on one of my friends, is a blast. I have been on the receiving end of punts so much, it’s nice to give some love back.

I’m using the Plan B addon, and I’ve found it a huge saver on my fingers. I just place similar attacks on the same buttons through the different plans and I only have to hit a few keys. I have a Armor Debuff > Armor Buff chain, a WS buff > WS debuff > SMH chain, and my “generic” chain of Clobber > Snare > Skull Thumper. The punt is on its own key so I only hit it when I know I need it.

I have been able to do relatively well at switching guard, keeping one eye on who is getting hit. Clicking on the group menu to switch mid-fight is tricky for me, though. Still learning exactly how far 30 feet is. Doing my best to assist the melee dps, making sure I have target’s armor debuffed. One thing I’m still learning is the timing to remove guard then place it on another target. Sometimes I end up just removing the guard, which has made for awkward occasions.

Big things I need to work on are using Taunt. I’m used to WoW showing a cast bar so I often don’t realize an enemy is casting, so I miss the chance to interrupt. Also haven’t been using it enough to apply a bit of extra burst on my Skull Thumper. Similarly, I feel like I need to better utilize my ability to change the plan. I don’t do that nearly enough, especially given the short cooldown. Hopefully that will come with time. Also, making sure I’m using the right abilities at the right time. Sometimes I panic a bit and end up hitting a caster with Right in da Jibblies, where the WS debuff is pretty meaningless I assume.

Some fond moments so far have been pretty much every punt off a ledge, punting a WL off my Choppa and saving his life at 5% health, guarding a WE on the Steamtank Factory flag and somehow helping to keep both of us alive, kill a few Order, and hold off about three more long enough for backup to arrive. Also, every single time I get a killing blow with Right in da Jibblies makes me laugh. Surprisingly, my damage is pretty significant over the length of a scenario since I am pretty much constantly hitting something. Also, a bit surprised at how many deathblows I can collect, again, just by constantly being in the fight. Love seeing the stat steal aura go off and everyone’s bars lighting up with buffs. I’m just getting into the big boy RvR. Not a lot of success there yet, mostly due to lack of action in the times I’ve been online.

It’s been a lot of fun so far. With most melee, I often find myself in a situation where I’m not doing much. Ranged standoffs between groups, standing on a keep wall, I’m always sort of waiting for something to do. With my BO, I can always just stand in front of everyone with HtL up to feel productive, and it’s nice not being scared that someone might drop a few DoTs on me and kill me. That shield is a lifesaver. If you haven’t played a tank before, I highly recommend giving it a whirl. It feels nice to both be beating on things and feel like an important part of the group.

With that out of the way, I do have a question regarding my mastery path. I know I eventually intend to spec Brawler for a dps build, but in the meantime I will be focusing on just being a tank. What abilities should I look at picking up, and in what order? Should I get the knockdown from Toughest before putting points into Boss?

Thank you all for the advice, I’ve greatly appreciated it. Hopefully when I hit 40 I can do you other Black Orcs proud.

[Collateral]

Cool update, nice to hear you're liking the class And yes it's super funny when you kill someone by kicking them in the nuts

PlanB is an absolute life saver, it's good you're utilising it. But it doesn't sound to me that you set it up correctly. What you do is put your first plan abilities on the first bar, second on the second bar and third plan on the third bar. The addon will rotate your 1st bar, as you probably know, so in every rotation you can use 3 abilities (if I misunderstood you ignore this ). I usually always finish with skull thumper, the other buffs and debuffs you place if they are needed. Keeping your snare up on people is also important. I put changing da plan on all 3 bars, so I can change whenever it's necessary. I recommend getting used to changing plans, it's very useful to know. Also, ws debuff is not completely meaningless on casters. Since the new changes, ws brings a decent amount of defenses, especially on healer/caster like wp. So reducing their ws means they are less likely to parry, don't forget that.

Guard switching is no easy task, but it's of utmost importance to tanks, and sadly not many people bother doing it. So it's great that you're practicing. When tanking, you have to keep one eye on the group, and one eye on your guard/assist target. I absolutely recommend getting enemy addon. It has a guard icon that tells you exactly how far you are, it will flash red when you're out of range. It will also put an arrow over your guard target. I bound my guard to TAB. It's easy to access for me, and you just press it twice to swap guard. That's at least how I do it. You can use click casting on enemy addon as well, so when you click on a group member icon you will activate the ability on them, but I found it very clunky personally. Knowing when to switch is also important. You have to learn when a burst is about to happen on someone, that's why having a keen eye helps a lot. As you saw, switching in time helps save lives.

Taunting is certainly not simple either. You just have to learn the animations I'm afraid. You can notice the res ability on most healers (when they lift their staff e.g.), and channeling abilities on other classes, like ether dance on SM, but you're not in that league yet

As for death blows, it's your skull thumper, one of the best kill steal (read: troll) abilities in the game lul.

Once you hit 40/40+ you will see the true power of the bo. For now you should still stay more defensive. Go up the middle tree and take can't hit me, ap tactic and you missed me. Those are very nice abilities that will make you very tanky, even for a lowbie. You can go for kd as well, if you want more control in the battle. It's one of the hardest hitting abilities you can have as well, if not the hardest (my highest crit ever is 1400, with dps snb spec btw).

Bo is a very fun class, as you probably saw. I know lvling is painful, but if you stick with it, it will pay off I guarantee

[Darrell]

Regarding the PlanB, that’s how I have the bars set up. No plan on bar 1, gud plan on bar 2, best plan on bar 3. I just try to bind similar abilities to the same key on each bar. So Wot Armor is F, for instance, then it changes to bar 2 where F is Tuffer n’ Nails. That way I know that f is my “Armor” key, so it’s easier for me to manage the rotations. Similarly, I have Changin’ da Plan bound in the same key in each stance (one of my mouse buttons). It just helps me to try to keep similar abilities on the same key.

I think I have the Enemy addon, but will double check and download if not. I’ve noticed on streams and videos the red shield icon with numbers on it and wondered what that was. It would be helpful for me so thank you for that.

I’ll stick with the middle tree then. I have You Missed Me now, and I was anticipating getting the ap tactic because I’ve noticed how ap starved I can be after being in a fight for a while. I’ll stick with the pure tank build until I hit 40, as I know you mentioned before that it makes the healer’s life a lot easier. Very much looking forward to seeing the BO at its best when I get to 40 though.

You hit the nail on the head with Skull Thumper, as that tends to be where my DB come from. At first I was confused when my addon would flash something like “slain by your Skull Thumper” when I knew I hadn’t hit them with that ability at that moment or was attacking a completely different target. Then I realized it’s the crit proc getting the killing blow.

Another thing I forgot to mention was how much I enjoy the PvE experience. I can just sit in a group of mobs fighting constantly and never get in a position where I have to regen health. It’s a really nice change from other melee classes where I would have to stop every few pools to restore my health pool. If I aggro 2-3 mobs at the same time, I don’t feel the need to panic at all.

One more question, if I may. I neglected to pick any crafting skills for my BO because I didn’t know which would be useful. However, with my BO at 22 now, I feel like I really should pick some up and probably should have already done so. Are there any crafting skills that BO in particular benefit from, or ones which are generally more useful?